Like I said, I am not for stamping on MT's grave and certainly do not support what is going on nationally.

On the other hand it seems that this thread has moved a bit into the healthier area of historical debate (as tends to happen when a controversial political figure dies). So with a constructive nuance I would add a few historical facts:-

Education
rjc1944 states and I quote:
"The spend on education didn't go down when the milk provision was stopped and so it was spent where it should always have been - on educating kids rather than feeding them." End quote.

The Institute for Fiscal Studies and HMTreasury report that the spending on education during MT's term as Minster for Education the budget was reduced by 3.5% in real terms. Milk attributed to less than 0.01% of that reduction so we can see quite clearly that the minister (MT) reduced spending on the education of the nation's children. It is therefore no wonder that Oxford University in 1985 refused MT an honorary degree!

Defence of Democracy
rjc1944 goes on to say - I quote:
"The Unions hated her because she had the unpopular (to them) idea that democracy was important".

This is simply farcical. Since the Kahn-Freud statement on employment relations in 1954 the statue law quickly began to change. Criteria of "fairness" and "reasonableness", and the prohibition of "less favourable treatment" entered the UK's employment law. (Far too many acts to quote verbatim) so that by the time of MT becoming PM in 1979 (and before the miners strike) a raft of sensible and equitable changes had been made to enshrine in the UK's employment legislation the principle of "democratic and fair to all parties". No part of the trade union movement or governments of left or right between 1954 and 1979 sought to reverse those embodied sentiments or statues. That was until MT arrived in Downing Street.

MT resolutely believed in a totally unregulated market place, and in that there's no place for worker participation, only worker production. MT did not wish to break the NUM or any Union, she desired to destroy the right of any worker howsoever employed to belong to any representative body or collectively negotiate. It was therefore the unified workers that were protecting their basic democratic human rights enshrined not only in UK law but in EU and United Nations Charters.

It is worth noting that those nations that do strongly embody and apply the principles of worker participation are those nations that exceed in industrial design, development and manufacture: Germany, Japan, Korea for example. And when they export their worker participation philosophy to their overseas production facilities in the UK they also enjoy stable industrial relations - take the car industry and BMW Oxford plant, Nissan in Sunderland (it's most productive plant globally) and Toyota in Derby.

To Steve D
Blair and Thatcher presided over different economies and different decades. It is inappropriate to draw comparisons between any two PM's that directed the nation under very different circumstances. What they do have in common though is both are loved or loathed.

But back to MT
Inflation
Between the MT PM years of 1979 and 1990 the average yearly inflation rate stood at 7.69% bouncing around under her boom and bust Chancellor Lamont of the unprecedented modern day high of 18% in 1980 to a tolerable low of 3.4% in '86 to finish again on a high of 7.0% in 1990. Under these conditions manufacturing industry found it far too expensive to invest.

If Steve D you do want a comparison Blair/Brown achieved a worthy credible average of just 1.89% in their tenure of 1997 through to 2010 with a low of 0.8% in 2000 to a high of 3.6% in 2008. For balance the Coalition is averaging 3.66% annual inflation so far, however, the Institute for Fiscal Studies and the International Monetary Fund are forecasting that the Cameron/Clegg duo are going to overshoot their targets for 2013 and 14.

Business Insolvencies
During her tenure business insolvencies in England and Wales (Scotland is accounted differently) moved from an all time low of 924 in June'79 to 4300 per month when leaving office in 1990. This fact was instrumental in both the Institute of Directors and the Confederation of British Industry in dropping their support for MT's "service industry led economy policies" and prompted her ousting by her own fellow party members. Poor JM inherited this trend which went on to reach an unprecedented all time modern day high of 6509 insolvencies alone in Sept'92.

Iain Cooper - you wrote: "brought the country back on it's feet"
The economic data supplied by the IFS, HMTreasury and the IMF certainly does not support that contention. And by 1990 neither did her own party.

And finally to dispel an MT myth Big Dave. Your quote: "Maggie paid the cost of the mission" "The RAF found him".

Neither are accurate. Official Downing Street files release last Nov/Dec reveal that MT paid a total sum of £1789.15p to the Foreign Office on the advice of her then Press Secretary Sir Bernard Ingram in order to persuade Mark not to sell his story to the tabloid press. That payment represented less than 18% of the total cost of the search and rescue mission which was conducted by 4 Algerian helicopters and 3 French aircraft which combined to located Mark after six days in the desert. The Algerian government picked up the tab for this and for the hotel n hospitality for all parties during and after the rescue. Dennis flew out on an expenses tab met by Lord Laing of Dunphail, one-time president of United Biscuits, former treasurer of the Conservative party and a close friend of MT. Laing accompanied Denis, flying him out in his United Biscuits corporate jet. A RAF Hercules was dispatched to Algeria to collect the whole bunch thereafter. The 1800 notes would not have even paid for the Hercules fuel!

So to end. May she rest in peace, and may each and everyone of us respect each and everyone's individual memory of her - be they accurate or misguided. John
07 HSE Narvick Black
Land Rover Series One
Triumph Rocket 111 (sadly gone!)

One thing I certainly don't agree with is the early recall of Parliament for "tributes". Rather than have the expense of recalling the MPs they could easily have waited until they were back on schedule. I suppose it will put a bit more of our money into their more-deserving pockets, so that's OK Bet most of the Labour MPs will take advantage of this despite their feelings......... Ours - 2008 Stornoway Grey HSE Auto
Tricia's - 2006 Royal Blue Beetle Cabriolet Auto
Mine - 2014 Vespa GTS 300 Super Sport Matt Black
Ours - 2007 White Bailey Pageant Champagne

...

in the interests of brevity, I include only the URL, not the full text... but worthwhile reading and may make others think again...

http://www.londonlovesbusiness.com/busines...18.article

... ...

Be true to yourself. That way happiness lies...

Or maybe this is the reality!!

http://www.redpepper.org.uk/dispelling-the-thatcher-myths/

You can pick any of hundreds online depending whether you are in favour or not

...

it just confirms my gut feeling that, in life, there are no facts, merely opinions based on statistics...(on both sides of any argument...)

...  ...

Be true to yourself. That way happiness lies...

Absolutely. And everyone's opinion is as valid as my own.

wizking wrote:

Absolutely. And everyone's opinion is as INvalid as my own.

 ...

Be true to yourself. That way happiness lies...

piattj wrote:

wizking wrote:

Absolutely. And everyone's opinion is as INvalid as my own.

I didn't agree with everything Thatcher did, but she was a thousand times better than the previous PM. Whether you liked her or not, no civilised person would dance in the streets to celebrate her passing. Such behaviour tells me a lot about the individuals concerned.

I despised Arthur Scargill's role, and his megalomania, but I would not dream of celebrating his death, he is a human being just like Margaret Thatcher and unlike the scum out celebrating. 2013 RR Evoque Pure Tech
2012 TD4 GS Auto Orkney Grey - gone

+1 Bugblatter Ours - 2008 Stornoway Grey HSE Auto
Tricia's - 2006 Royal Blue Beetle Cabriolet Auto
Mine - 2014 Vespa GTS 300 Super Sport Matt Black
Ours - 2007 White Bailey Pageant Champagne

This thread should come to an end.
No matter what you think of Maggie, enough is enough.
She is gone, no matter what you say now will make a scrap of difference.
She was someones Daughter, someones Wife and a Mother too.
Let it rest please and let us at least be dignified and respecful. Another member of the failed FL2 clutch/DMF club, twice.

Last edited by Pegleg on 11th Apr 2013 11:27 am. Edited 1 time in total

Pegleg wrote:

She was someones ........Husband.....

Well, she had balls alright but I doubt that she ever made 'husband' status!  Past: FL2 TD4 HSE Auto
Evoque SD4 Dynamic Lux Auto
Present: Audi A3 S Line.

Pegleg is right. We have had our say so let's let the thread go. John
07 HSE Narvick Black
Land Rover Series One
Triumph Rocket 111 (sadly gone!)

Steve,

Edited Another member of the failed FL2 clutch/DMF club, twice.