Hi All

My Freelander has 60k miles on the clock and is just shy of 3 years old. All motorway miles.
No off-road. No towing.

At about 40k miles the clutch seemed to start slipping. Very intermittant and was unable to recreate it on demand. We mentioned it at the 40k service and was told they could not get the clutch to slip. Over the last year it started to get worse until now it always slips under load in 5th or 6th. So as it was going in for the 60k service we got them to check it. When I called the dealer they told me they could not get it to slip on the test drive. I insisted that it was indeed slipping.
When my wife went to collect the car she was told the clutch needed replacing and was quoted for this. She said it shold be covered under warranty and they told her highly unlikely. Due to delays getting parts - it has been several weeks before we could get it back into the dealer. They have replaced the clutch plate and said that the bill is just shy of £900 and it would not be covered under warranty. It was wear and tear. I spoke to the warranty manager and he explained the clutch plate was not really worn - just glazed. This would have been due to the clutch slipping and overheating. Well I knew it was slipping so nothing new there.

The potential causes were 1) Flywheel problem. They tested this all ok. 2) Foot resting on clutch. Not a chance. 3) Oil leak. No sign of one. 4) Heavy or extreme usage. What motorways?

Worth pointing out we buy 2 new cars every three years and never had a clutch failure.

So that is where we are at. A sizeable bill. Unknown cause and in my view likely to happen again in the not too distant future with no root cause found.

I was due to replace the car with another Freelander in March but cant see me buying another Landrover product.

Advice, views or comments all welcome. Thanks. (Coming) 2016 RR Evoque td4 180 HSE Dynamc
(Going) 2013 TD4 GS Auto - Santorini Black with black leather. Cold Climate, UK Lighting & Armrest Packs. Privacy Glass. LR Rubber Mats. Full size spare.
60 000 miles averaging 35mpg

(Gone) 2010 TD4 Manual GS - Stornoway Grey. Sold at 3yrs old & 64k miles. Final average consumption 39.2mpg.

I assume you have searched out the other threads on this, but if you do end up having to pay and providing you kept all dealings within warranty to a dealer then get in touch with 'Liam' (customer services) on this forum.
You should have a sizeable chunk of that cost reduced.

Your dealer should be fighting your corner on this as well, it's not as if its an uncommon occurrence.

from what you describe it looks as if the clutch has been slipping on and off over the last 20K miles and put a glaze on the clutch plate.

when renewing the clutch plate, did they also renew the DMF ? as it looks like this is the likely cause of the problem.

also the fact that you have done 60K miles in less than 3 years confirms that a lot of motorway miles have been involved.

the car is under warranty and this is a known issue, so quite frankly I do not understand where this dealer is coming from ?

Iain

Thanks guys. Yes I was aware of all the issues with Freelanders and clutches from other threads on this forum, and when I told the dealer this he agreed they were aware of the DMF issues but they had followed Landrovers test instructions on the DMF and this was not the issue. So they havent replaced the DMF - just the clutch which in my mind means it will continue to do this intermittantly and slowly get worse over time again as the new clutch glazes over.

My dealer is certainly not fighting my corner. their advice is for me to contact Landrover and plead my case as there is no point them doing this(apparently).

In my view the DMF and clutch plate should be replaced under warranty. (Coming) 2016 RR Evoque td4 180 HSE Dynamc
(Going) 2013 TD4 GS Auto - Santorini Black with black leather. Cold Climate, UK Lighting & Armrest Packs. Privacy Glass. LR Rubber Mats. Full size spare.
60 000 miles averaging 35mpg

(Gone) 2010 TD4 Manual GS - Stornoway Grey. Sold at 3yrs old & 64k miles. Final average consumption 39.2mpg.

flylr, I agree with what you are saying and I would have thought they would have replaced everything under warranty.

I would put your views and feelings to Landrover and the dealer in writing ( email ) and if the problem comes back at least you will have a case ?

I still cannot understand how it can be wear and tear if the clutch plate is not worn, but glazed ?

do you tow with your car ?

Iain

No towing, no off roading and no loading the car up with heavy loads like building materials or anything like that.
Just motorway commuting with one or two people in the car. It has had a very easy life... for any car never mind a tough off-roader.

The car is still with the dealer being finished off, so haven't collected/paid yet. Have dropped Liam a pm to see what he can advise.

Thanks all. (Coming) 2016 RR Evoque td4 180 HSE Dynamc
(Going) 2013 TD4 GS Auto - Santorini Black with black leather. Cold Climate, UK Lighting & Armrest Packs. Privacy Glass. LR Rubber Mats. Full size spare.
60 000 miles averaging 35mpg

(Gone) 2010 TD4 Manual GS - Stornoway Grey. Sold at 3yrs old & 64k miles. Final average consumption 39.2mpg.

Sorry to hear of your issues. I also had my clutch replaced a couple of weeks ago after only 16000 miles. The issue with mine was overheating, the dealer called it bluing. I was told the clutch is a warranty item by my dealer and they insisted that they would fix it. You should call customer services and complain, all customers should get the same service.

My flywheel was also fine. They diagnosed that the slave cylinder and release bearing caused the problem.

All

I first noticed a slipping clutch @ 29k, again FL2 very lightly used. Dealer cannot reproduce problem, as I can't on demand (just been out with five-up, no problems!). Taking it for a 2nd opinion this afternoon. < 1 month left on original warranty, so it's helpful to know about other owners problems, when I discuss this with dealer.

Colin

The clutches are pretty good if you dont use them.

Liam is looking into this for me currently.

Just had a call from dealer to say car is ready for collection and price had gone up by £50 due to replacement of gearbox oil. So now just over £920. Just to add insult to injury.

Root cause not identified so nothing else replaced/repaired/adjusted to prevent damage to new clutch plate. (Coming) 2016 RR Evoque td4 180 HSE Dynamc
(Going) 2013 TD4 GS Auto - Santorini Black with black leather. Cold Climate, UK Lighting & Armrest Packs. Privacy Glass. LR Rubber Mats. Full size spare.
60 000 miles averaging 35mpg

(Gone) 2010 TD4 Manual GS - Stornoway Grey. Sold at 3yrs old & 64k miles. Final average consumption 39.2mpg.

I really can't see the sense in stripping it all down and only renewing the clutch plate, bearing in mind the findings.

surely it would be more cost effective to fit a new/updated DMF at the same time ?

Iain

I'll stick my neck out here and accept to be educated if wrong

The DMF provides two purposes, the surface to mate with the clutch plate and the springs to reduce the transmission of diesel engine vibration for a more refined smoothness. If there has been no undue vibrations felt and the surface is not damaged then why renew it?

Inside of the clutch will obviously be the new clutch plate, a new pressure plate, a new diaphragm spring etc all held together as one unit, so if the original pressure plate was 'weak' then this has been renewed meaning better pressure of the clutch material onto the face of the DMF.

Assuming they also checked/renewed the release bearing for ease of movement on the shaft then all should now be good.

You just should not have to pay for it.

ARGHHHHH this post makes me so angry.
If your dealer does not know what the exact problem is they should be submitting an EPQR to Land Rover's Technical team.
If they have not done this then INSIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Some dealers are too LAZY to do this, hence LR get no feedback and the guys there who are AMAZING cannot get you the help you require.
It is only by doing this that LR can identify what sorts of problems are out there (as illustrated by my turbo whistle).
Also it is very bad practice to replace parts without getting to the bottom of an issue. In my opinion the clutch in our vehicles should not fail with reasonable useage.
Good luck with LRCS.
MM

I agree with MM, a good dealer will elevate the issue, it is the next step in the ladder and is their responsibility.

I agree, keep fighting because your dealer is clearly not helping you as he should with the well-known problem.

When my clutch was going, the best test (and reproduceable enough to demonstrate to a LR service workshop manager) was to get to 65 in 6th on a dual cariageway or motorway and floor the throttle - this is close to the max torque speed of 2000 and all the better if you can be on a slight incline to hold the road speed back as the turbo "spools up". 2000 is actaully ~70 but I can not be seen to condone speeding by advising you to accelerate from that speed!

Even with your new clutch plate, be aware of your DMF performance. Mine was changed when the dealer found it faulty when the clutch was changed but it was going again when I traded in the car - most repeatable was a 4-3 downshift without adjusting the throttle (keep closed). As I came off the clutch, the bite point would occasionally provoke a judder. As the car was only covered by LR extended warranty (5th year), my dealer thought it needed to be worse to get attention. Under the 3-year factory warranty, it would hav been changed. Gone... 2013 XS TD4 Manual Firenze Red
Gone... 2008 (09MY) XS Td4 Manual Stornaway Grey
Prior... 2003 G4 Discovery 2, 1998 Disco 1 and 1997 Disco 1 Company car before that
Also gone in Nov'13, after 7.5 yrs, to new owners with time for more TLC - 1980 Series III 88
Current 2015 Discovery Sport HSE 2.0