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Grumpy



Member Since: 29 Feb 2008
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 78

Scotland 2007 Freelander 2 TD4 XS Manual Izmir Blue
Bio Diesel Question

Filling up at local Jet station I noticed a sign on the pump saying "may contain up to 7% Bio diesel". The Handbook for my car - 57 plate - says can take up to 5%. Anyone know if I can do damage using this diese - l think the newer Freelanders can take up to 10%?

Cheers


Banging Head


Grumpy Grumpy

Post #92337 17th Feb 2011 10:19 pm
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druand



Member Since: 07 Sep 2009
Location: south ayrshire
Posts: 825

Scotland 2013 Freelander 2 SD4 GS Auto Fuji White

Yes, 2011 my 10%. All FL2's (3) Gone
2011 Mercedes C180 CGI Gone
FL2 GS Auto SD with heated leather, factory tints, alloy spare and a few other bits.

Post #92343 18th Feb 2011 12:00 am
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trevd01



Member Since: 17 Dec 2010
Location: Pennine Yorkshire
Posts: 116

2011 Freelander 2 SD4 XS Auto Santorini Black

I don't think you have a choice whether to use 7% bio-diesel. All EU diesel can contain 7% bio-diesel.

Wikipedia wrote:
EN590 describes the physical properties that all automotive diesel fuel must meet if it is to be sold in the European Union, Iceland, Norway and Switzerland.

It allows the blending of up to 7% fatty acid methyl ester with 'conventional' diesel - a 93/7 mix.

 Trevor

'60 reg SD4 XS (long gone!)

Post #92357 18th Feb 2011 9:16 am
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Grumpy



Member Since: 29 Feb 2008
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 78

Scotland 2007 Freelander 2 TD4 XS Manual Izmir Blue
Biodiesel question

Hi

Hope someone has an answer. Filling up at my local garage (Jet) I noticed a sticker on the pump saying contains up to 7% biodiesel. I remeber seeing something in the handbook and looked it up and it states biodiesel up to 5% may be used - mine is a 57 plate engine.

Anyone know if this could cause problems? I notice all the supermarket pumps also say up to 7% so could be difficult to stay within the 5% noted in the manual.

Thanks





Banging Head
Grumpy Grumpy

Post #93264 25th Feb 2011 3:02 pm
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npinks



Member Since: 28 Jun 2007
Location: Ls25
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United Kingdom 

merged into your other thread Wink Former Mod/Member, with the most post & Chicken George Arch nemesis

Post #93265 25th Feb 2011 3:09 pm
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DiscoGeorge



Member Since: 20 Nov 2010
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
Posts: 193

South Africa 

Hi guys

there is an easy fix for this, use 0.5% (1:200) Jaso-FC 2-stroke oil with your diesel and you never have to worry about the hypgroscopic behaviour of the bio diesel. Very Happy With kind regards
DiscoGeorge
1998 Disco1 ES 300Tdi with twin TrueTracs
2005 Disco3 TDV6 S
And some more serious stuff

Post #93305 25th Feb 2011 7:59 pm
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Grumpy



Member Since: 29 Feb 2008
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 78

Scotland 2007 Freelander 2 TD4 XS Manual Izmir Blue

Following up I spoke to LR themselves and they said that the Handbook statement was for warranty protection purposes as some data showed that above 5% biodiesel the seals in the fuel system could, in theory, soften and fail prematurely. The newer cars can run to 10%. I contacted Shell which is what I had been using before and they said they only blend to a max of 5%.

I'm well out of warranty now but I'm going to be careful as (possible) leaks in the fuel system could be expensive. Shell it is then for me

Banging Head


Grumpy Grumpy

Post #93770 1st Mar 2011 3:02 pm
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DiscoGeorge



Member Since: 20 Nov 2010
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
Posts: 193

South Africa 

Hi guys

apart from the hygroscopic behaviour of bio diesel (it contains ethanol!!!) there is a second proviso:

On earlier models, crank and camshaft seal rings can be negatively affected by using higher concentrations of bio-diesel. They can go soft and start leaking.

But one would have to start using some heavy percentage of bio-diesel before this becomes a problem.

The main contention of bio-diesel is its hygroscopic behaviour, and that stuffs up injection systems, mechanical and/or CRD Crying or Very sad With kind regards
DiscoGeorge
1998 Disco1 ES 300Tdi with twin TrueTracs
2005 Disco3 TDV6 S
And some more serious stuff

Post #93782 1st Mar 2011 4:50 pm
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Dave



Member Since: 04 Jul 2007
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Scotland 2012 Freelander 2 SD4 HSE Auto Indus Silver

Diesel fuel itself is hygroscopic Confused , so by definition, biodiesel would also be hygroscopic, and because sulphur has been removed from diesel, biodiesel and biodiesel/petrodiesel blends, with their higher lubricity levels, are increasingly being utilized as an alternative to aid lubrication. Hence the reason why I think there is no need to add anything else to aid lubrication.

Any evidence of a modern (post 2007) engines fuel system failing because of lack of lubrication Question ______________________
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Post #93814 1st Mar 2011 8:01 pm
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Grumpy



Member Since: 29 Feb 2008
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 78

Scotland 2007 Freelander 2 TD4 XS Manual Izmir Blue

LR support guy only expressed reservation on going above 5% Bio on early engines - mine is a 57 plate. Didn't mention any issues on lube - only possible degradation of seals.

Banging Head

Grumpy Grumpy

Post #93828 1st Mar 2011 8:56 pm
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DiscoGeorge



Member Since: 20 Nov 2010
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
Posts: 193

South Africa 

Hi Dave and Grumpy

just ask any member of Toyota and/or Land Rover forums in SA, they will confim that there is an abnormally high failure rate of CRD diesel pumps and injectors.

The reasons for that are two-fold:

1. Lower sulphur content in 50ppm ULSD (reduced lubricity)

2. Higher content of bio-diesel and/or ethanol in ULSD (increase in corrosion and erosion related failures i.e. leaking injectors)

I have just purchased a 2005 model Disco3 TDV6 which had CRD pump and injectors changed at 130'000km. I asked the previous owner if he had used 2sO. He was quite puzzled by my question. After I explained to him the advantages of 2sO and why the non-use of 2sO lead to these failures, he immediately started using it on the other diesel vehicles in his fleet. b Very Happy With kind regards
DiscoGeorge
1998 Disco1 ES 300Tdi with twin TrueTracs
2005 Disco3 TDV6 S
And some more serious stuff

Post #93989 3rd Mar 2011 5:03 am
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kaanage



Member Since: 25 Feb 2011
Location: Victoria
Posts: 29

Australia 

Dave wrote:
Diesel fuel itself is hygroscopic Confused ,


Really? I always thought it was a light mineral oil so it would be hydrophobic so water in the tank would sink to the bottom as a separate layer.

Post #94080 4th Mar 2011 12:43 am
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chicken george



Member Since: 05 Dec 2007
Location: N. Yorks
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United Kingdom 2008 Freelander 2 TD4 XS Manual Santorini Black

bacteria then grow in the join between the water and the fuel. not good. mainly in a stationary storage tank not a car swishing around
http://www.dieselbugbusters.co.uk/index.ph...;Itemid=45 At work
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Post #94081 4th Mar 2011 12:48 am
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DiscoGeorge



Member Since: 20 Nov 2010
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
Posts: 193

South Africa 

CC you have raised a very valid point here. This is a major headache for us here in SA, also because of the higher ambient temperatures which foster growth of these unwanted life forms.

There are special additives available that kill bacteria in diesel tanks. I add one of those bottles once every 5000km. So far it has worked for me very well. Diesel filter blockage in SA is mainly caused by dirty diesel, not so much by bacterial growth. Shocked But the combination of the two is a killer.

Dave

there are on the market gadgets called water traps, they separate water from the diesel by means of a very simple trick. The specific gravitiy of water is higher than that of diesel. One just has to periodically drain the water traps and that will then assist. The problem comes in when Ethanol (bio diesel) is added. This can then lead to rust formation on metal injection parts.

See the picture I posted on the previous page. With kind regards
DiscoGeorge
1998 Disco1 ES 300Tdi with twin TrueTracs
2005 Disco3 TDV6 S
And some more serious stuff

Post #94085 4th Mar 2011 4:08 am
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