We use a couple of Maxi Cosi car seats which are secured by threading the seat belt through a slit in the head restraint section of the car seat. The problem I have got is the LR seatbelts are so thin compared with those in our other car that they are always twisting and getting caught in the slit on the car seat. They now don't retract very well as they are creased. Anyone else have this problem? Gotta say, the seatbelts seem pretty rubbish quality compared with other cars I have owned.

I have a similar issue with my recaro seat for my son

The plastic loop you pass it through above his shoulder makes the belt bend in half, this has led to the issue of it not retracting easily when he gets out,

Keep thinking of ironing it to flatten it out, maybe with a bit of starch  Former Mod/Member, with the most post & Chicken George Arch nemesis

Britax / Romer child seat model we use has no such problems - perhaps that's just one of the reasons why this manufacturer is consistently in the "Best in Class" child car seat surveys conducted by motoring organizations across the EU, and why, both Recaro and Maxi Cosy are usually found in the "Okay" or "V.Poor" rating segments of such independent surveys.

Re the operational instance quoted (mojo / npinks): if the belt cannot pass through the child seat's own guide ring then that is a design weakness of that seat, and not of the Freelander's seat belt webbing.

As for LR Freelander2 seat belts - they exceed all of the statutory safety regulations for all of the markets in which the model is on sale.

I don't think mine is due to the FL2 design, the seats the problem  Former Mod/Member, with the most post & Chicken George Arch nemesis

Despite the EU having a whole host of consumer protection laws what is shocking is that some child seats have been found to be bordering on the "dangerous and unfit for use" and yet those child seats are legally sold. I personally find it unacceptable that a baby or young person's life can be placed at risk due to lax regulation re the design and construction of children's car seats.

Athelstan, I disagree. Maxi Cosi regularly receive very good reviews and are considered to be at the top end of the car seat market. My issue is with the seatbelts in the FL2, the fabric is considerably thinner and more pliable than any other seatbelt material I have encountered. I have aboslutely no problem with our Maxi Cosi seats in our Audi as the seatbelt material is of a much higher quality in this vehicle. The Audi also has a locking seatbelt mechanism for use with forward facing 5 point car seat aimed at children upto the age of 3.5 years. The LR does not have locking seatbelts (ie you cannot fully extend them, retract them and then not be able to pull them out again) which I think is a major safety oversight on their part as it results in a poorer fit for any non ISOFIX carseat. Also, the LR seatbelt material is also very easy to snag. As an aside, the Britax / Romer carseat (OEM) for the Audi A4 did not perform that well in the relevant Euro NCAP test which I read at the time, hence our purchase of Maxi Cosi seats. I would be interested in any links you have to car sest safety assessments on the internet.

maxi cosi turning car seat here, it pulls the seatbelt tight with a hefty ratchet , very confident in it At work
At home

"I can't always believe facts I read on the web" - Charles Dickens

winner by default of the tractor vs caravan race

Maxi Cosi Rodi XR here and we have the same twisting issues, which we don't get in the other car or in previous cars.

This seat gets top marks in the Which tests so it's not that it's a naff seat.

This is a grp 3 seat so there is no clamping on to the seatbelt like with seats for smaller kids.

wonder if we should start a car seat forum, seems it is equally able to create a debate as FL reliability The missus - SD4 HSE - Black - 2012
Me - BMW 330d Saloon - Black - 2011

Mojo et all.
Firstly I have no axe to grind against any one company and its products - this subject is far too important for that kind on nonsense.

Below are few child seat test links for review, and there are many more from other motoring organizations around the EU, however disappointingly both the RAC and the AA list very little recent data or tests on this subject. Perhaps it is about time they did instead of leaving it to the vagaries of "Which" whose test model is based upon far too little criteria.

Certifying child seat performance requires an in-depth destructive examination across all its potential occupants vis-a-vis age, weight and height criteria, and, across all currently legally permitted restraining devices and seat models marketed by child seat manufacturers as I have previously stated on another thread started earlier this year by CG. Here's an extract from my post therein:

Quote Athlestan 5th Jan 18:26hrs:
1: Poor Performing Brands: PEG - SAFETY FIRST - CASUAL PLAY
2: Generally Okay to Good Brands (but caution - check out very carefully actual model for your child): RECARO - MAXI COSI - CHICCO - CONCORD
3: Generally Consistent Top Performing Brands (again check actual model to ensure it is right for your child and is a top performing model - these companies do sometimes produce a second rater!): KIDDY - JANE - CYBEX - BRITAX/ROMER
End Quote.

Here's CG's full thread: www.freel2.com/forum/post86521.html#86521

There is no inconsistency with what I said in January and what I posted earlier today on this subject, in that, in year on year tests by ADAC (German), OMAC (Austrian), and TCS (Swiss) motoring organizations, they place manufacturers in these three general categories. Occasionally they do discover that a manufacturer does improve upon its previous performance with a model that proves worthy of a higher rating - but for consumer confidence consistency is a valuable asset. And you'll see that my text does state: quote "check out the actual model very carefully first".

Here are the test links for 2010 (it is too early into 2011 for them to test newer models):
www.adac.de/infotestrat/tests/kindersicher...geId=31900
www.oeamtc.at/?id=2500,1108857
www.tcs.ch/main/de/home/der_tcs/presse/arc..._2010.html
Note: all of them do archive their test results within their website so anyone that is interested in the performance of an older seat model can do so to discover how it performed.

Now to some specifics of comments (mojo) re Britax/Romer and A4:
As I do not know which B/R seat was used with the A4 I cannot comment on its performance other than to repeat: it is essential to review specific child seat models in the manufacturers range to ensure that that one is a) suitable for your child re age, weight and height and review as your child grows once you've bought the seat, and b) no one manufacturer excels with all of its models - I have seen tests where the B/R model was not "best-in-class" but only very good (and I did say on the 5th Jan in CG's thread that B/R sometimes produce a 2nd rater!) - therefore an examination of the motoring organizations tests will reveal that Maxi Cosi has a best-in-class model somewhere within these extensive tests, and c) I repeat it is consistency that determines the three classifications.

Finally re the FL2: back in August 2009 when her Ladyship decided she needed a 4x4 (Doctor on call all hours in all weathers in these alps) we reviewed over 20 potential vehicles. Part of the selection process was to review a vehicle's NCAP test result. Many of these 20+ 4x4's had the Adult 5Star NCAP safety rating, but only one, the Freelander2 had the NCAP 4Star Child Safety Rating (in Aug'09 no car had an NCAP 5 Star Child Safety Rating). If there was any doubt over the FL2's build and component integrity then NCAP would have found that out, seat belt design, materials and functionality included.

note: late edit re year of research on FL2 was 2009 not 2010 as originally posted.

Last edited by athelstan on 28th Jan 2011 9:43 pm. Edited 1 time in total

Maxi Cosi seem pretty consistent to me:
http://www.adac.de/infotestrat/tests/kinde...fault.aspx

All Maxi Cosi models assessed as 'Good' or 'Very Good' with the exception of one which was rated satisfactory. The 2 Britax seats listed received below par scores. So I say again, it is the seatbelts which are at fault, especially as ADAC say that the Maxi Cosi Rodi (which we have) has a very good seatbelt location system. By the way, I don't speak German but if you use Google Chrome it will give you a 'translate' bar. Not perfect but better than nothing. Interestingly, no similar website available in the UK. Oh, and Jane don't score very well either on the ADAC website.

This is what Euro NCAP said about the Romer car seat:
"The VW-branded forward-facing Römer Prince Bobsy G1 Universal seats did not protect well. They did not contain the children’s heads in the side impact, and the 18-month-old risked neck injury in the front impact." Hence I bought something else. I agree that child safety in cars is very important and that is one of the main reasons we bought the FL2 and not another 4x4 as it is the only Euro NCAP 5* 4x4 which also scored highly for child protection. However, I still believe that thicker seatbelt material would improve overall child safety in this vehicle as it would not crease and fold quite so much. If anyone from LR is reading this, take it in board.

Yes they (Maxi Cosi) are, based upon those models tested by ADAC in 2010.

What I am referring to is data collected across many different channels and over a number of years. In 2009 when her Ladyship looked into this matter after choosing her FL2 she collated test results from many resources re child safety over the period 2006 to 2009 because those models were being sold here in CH.

As I explained and already made clear - no one excels in all age groups etc., and not all models are sold in every market. Manufacturers confuse matters further by renaming models for different markets. And, not all tests include models from every manufacturer so like for like comparisons become even harder to establish. That is why it is wrong to rely upon one source (as was quoted by someone - it is good xyz test so great) to establish a verifiable track record the data base must include as many different testers and models and manufactures over a number of years.

Re FL2 seat belt. Her Laydship's FL2 MY2010 must have a different webbing than yours mojo as it does not crease or fold.

As previously stated: even Britax/Romer have made a second rater - e.g: Römer Prince Bobsy G1 Universal

I can quote you 2nd and 3rd raters to downright dangerous models from all other manufacturers, but this subject is not about scoring points it is about child safety and making an informed safe buying decision.

For me that's all there is to say. The end.

We've got a romer with isofix. It fits perfectly to both VW Golf and Fl2.

However on Fl2 it makes a rattle noise when empty. Beside that works perfectly and requires no fiddling with seatbelts.  2010 Freelander 2 Select TD4 auto....gone
2011 Freelander 2 TD4 auto ...current