AndyC wrote:

mattbridge wrote:

lol thought that would start a debate.

All I can say is I have had 3s since 2000 to current and not one of them has broken down, ever had any work done other than usual service items and servicing (including my M3) was cheaper and much more comprehensive than LR.

I can't complain about the FL2 as it is a good and useful second car for us but that's about it. There's nothing special about it and it can't be "driven" and whilst it is nice knowing you won't get stuck in the snow that's true of nearly any 4x4 with decent tyres.

Quality? Depends which 3 you had but lets take the leather for 1, cabin quality for 2, switching functions for 3 etc etc.

Audi, yep you're right, nice Cabins for sure

You will find all those details on an X3 - so why did you buy a Land Rover at all

In your inevitable style as always , why? because she wanted one, it was cheap and it does the job The missus - SD4 HSE - Black - 2012
Me - BMW 330d Saloon - Black - 2011

Here comes my war and peace response:

I am with mattbridge with regards praise for the 3 series. I cannot comment on ownership but have always liked the prestige and at least the 'perceived' quality, not forgetting the superior drive that accompanies BMW's. I could be a brand new 3 series owner now but changed my mind and plumped for a brand new FL2 instead. Being my only car it was a wise choice given the snow we have just had.

My Dad has an A4 so I appreciate the supreme fixtures and fittings of the german cars. Having said that, the FL2 irons out bumps and is smoother than some beemers cos they tend to have stiffer suspension. Plus if I had purchased a BMW, I would have 'The Ultimate Driving Machine' (providing the weather is ok). Despite the shortfalls of the FL2 next to the beemer, the FL2 gets me about in any weather and stress free! Even without the snow, a Mr Cool in his 3 series floored it at the lights recently in the overtaking lane but I pulled away from him cos he could not put the power down in the heavy rain!

The beemer deserves praise but the FL2 was the right choice for me, the look on the face of the 5 series driver was great when I ploughed past him in the snow. BMW people will argue that buying an X3, X5 or X6 will give the best of both worlds but I wouldn't have one if you paid me. Ugly, overly expensive and inferior to LR rivals on the 4x4 front.

Rear wheel drive beemers get you from A to B with all their qualities mentioned.
The FL2 gets you from A to B with all its qualities mentioned whatever the weather. LL.B (Hons) - University of Derby
LOT (Lord of Time) - University of Gallifrey

well said that man. I am just happy we have both so when it snows the beema can stay at home.

if I HAD to pick one it would be the Beema every time tho The missus - SD4 HSE - Black - 2012
Me - BMW 330d Saloon - Black - 2011

mattbridge wrote:

well said that man. I am just happy we have both so when it snows the beema can stay at home.

if I HAD to pick one it would be the Beema every time tho

If I had enough money to throw around, it would be nice to have both or pehaps a nice Audi instead. I was in the market though and HAD to choose so it was FL2 and no regrets. Not being fortunate enough to have both, I like the fact that although there aren't lots of days per year where snow becomes an issue or indeed heavy rain and floods, I can sit back and laugh at bad weather forecasts (sensible driving of course). If a 3 series was my only car, there would be some sweat on my brow everytime bad weather arrived !

Plus I once encountered a rep in a 3 series on a narrow side street, he kept coming thinking I would back up. Needless to say he lost and had to reverse  LL.B (Hons) - University of Derby
LOT (Lord of Time) - University of Gallifrey

Well I've had three BMWs and have liked each one of them, they are extremely well made cars and drive beautifully.

The current toy is a Z4 with Wintrac tyres, I haven't had any serious problems, I encountered one hill that I couldn't quite make it up due to not having enough momentum but apart from that I haven't got stuck or had any traction issues at all.

Best of both worlds for now, although I still have my eyes firmly set on a Freely as a second car when I'm in the financial position to do so, no tyres will make the Z4 drive up a Greenlane  Blue

mattbridge wrote:

AndyC wrote:

mattbridge wrote:

l
Quality? Depends which 3 you had but lets take the leather for 1, cabin quality for 2, switching functions for 3 etc etc.

Audi, yep you're right, nice Cabins for sure

You will find all those details on an X3 - so why did you buy a Land Rover at all

In your inevitable style as always , why? because she wanted one, it was cheap and it does the job

That seems a good enough reason to buy a Land Rover .

Maybe you would be better off with an Audi (A-something) Quattro and a new lipstick, which may satisfy the "cosmetic" dislikes you seem to have with a "cheap" FL2 HSE.  2007 Freelander 2 HSE TD4 Manual with Premium Pack & Moonroof.
Stornoway Grey with Ebony Black Pleather, Clear Indicators, Body Side Mouldings etc.

I have owned four 3 series (320, M3, 330 and M3) and are great cars. Simply amazing built quality, great drive sensation and reliable. You are right, quite helpless on snow, but I did not buy them to become the second Ari Vatanen driving on snow and ice at speed.

My FL2 on the other hand does what it says on the tin. enough space on the boot, acceptable built quality and reasonable drive.

Different cars, different purpose for each.

mattbridge wrote:

As we have both of the cars you mention (albeit and Alpina 3 series without runflats) I think you will be a little miffed with the Fl2 after the honeymoon period.
The LR isn't a patch on the BMW for quality, reliability or refinement although it does what it is designed for OK. Sure it will be better on the country roads and general day to day running around but that's it, there is nothing at all special or "quality" about it really.

Re you water bottle issue, seems odd as mine has never frozen in the last 3 3 series I have owned, even in recent -16 days in the Peaks

Wintermute wrote:

I had an A4 before freely, and the quality difference is enormous, both car and customer service by dealer. About getting through yeah, but the rest is as you guys said, just a car.

The offroader guys often say,

After a day of offroading, a Toyota driver goes to car wash, a LR driver goes to service.

I've had 3 BM's, several veedubs, an Audi and now the Freelander (not including my earlier hacks when I first started driving) and to give my summary of the various marques..

German cars are generally better built than all others, but they still can do bad ones (generally when not built in Germany e.g. the X3!).. My VW's were impeccable, the BMs just brilliant and whilst I acknowledge that Audis build also also top notch – the last one I had was a nightmare.

British cars I dont think can match the germans for build quality but there is something special about them that I cannot describe and sort of gets under your skin – a sort of passion that the very efficient Germans got not replicate . I reluctantly bought the Freelander as I needed the room for the brood but I am now loving it.

I also think that a cars reliability is directly effected by the people driving it... All marques have good ones and bad ones but they pretty much all build to similar standards, but in order to keep them running well A certain amount of mechanical empathy is needed... All the cars I have owned from new or nearly new rarely needed anything doing. Pre owned cars (the audi) turned out to be a bag of nails.

I also think where a manufacturer is on the bleeding edge of technology you have to expect some teething problems, to use the analogy; Microsoft Windows is never perfect first release and always requires a few Service Packs, but the majority still use it! That said if you dont want cutting edge design and technology, buy a Lexus (or an Amstrad)!

BM's I think are true drivers cars and anyone to say they are boring dont know how to drive... Audi's are soulless, and although I have not had a merc I just think they are for old men with pipes and slippers (my opinion )

My 330i was one of the best cars I owned and a reluctantly got rid for the Freel2. I like the Freel2 just as much but it is an entirely different car, to compare the two is difficult but I would always go back to BMW (for now at least) if they would just build a car that I can afford and fits 3 in the back! Freelander 2 TD4 Auto, SE, Narvik Black, Alpaca full leather, Rear Headrest Entertainment System, 6 CD, 18 HSE Wheels, Privicy tints

Mav71 wrote:

mattbridge wrote:

As we have both of the cars you mention (albeit and Alpina 3 series without runflats) I think you will be a little miffed with the Fl2 after the honeymoon period.
The LR isn't a patch on the BMW for quality, reliability or refinement although it does what it is designed for OK. Sure it will be better on the country roads and general day to day running around but that's it, there is nothing at all special or "quality" about it really.

Re you water bottle issue, seems odd as mine has never frozen in the last 3 3 series I have owned, even in recent -16 days in the Peaks

Totally disagree with that comment, I think the FL2 is as good on quality as the 320d I had for 6 months. There is no argument about the difference of the car's use. The BMW is a family saloon car and the LR a 4x4.

I got bored with the BMW after 6 months. Although it is a good drivers car, it is just plain boring and has no charactor what so ever.

I have had our FL2 for 3 1/2 years now and it still has the novelty factor when I drive it, and we came to the FL2 from a stupidly fast 280bhp Zafira GSI.

I now have a Mercedes CLK instead of the BMW and the Merc for sure is in another league to the BMW.

CLK u r joking , bless The missus - SD4 HSE - Black - 2012
Me - BMW 330d Saloon - Black - 2011

I swapped to a BMW from my FL2, not because there was anything particularly wrong, in fact I was sad to see it go. I just got a little bored, and I was lusting after more power. It was a highly competent car, pretty refined, and it was a nice place to be in.
I bought my M5 as it was something I considered even before the FL2, so I finally took the plunge. It's great in its own way but it's difficult to compare as they are quite different types of cars obviously.
In the snow it was terrible, almost got stranded on a small incline and took several run-ups before I could get out of the road. Had my son in the car which was not good if I had to abandon it. Annoyingly, I had bought a set of winter tyres ready to go on but the wheels hadn't arrived. They're on now just before the last set of snow and the difference was amazing. Car was transformed and didn't get stuck anywhere, such a relief that I could drive without the constant worry of maybe getting stuck. Phil