Quote:

So, maybe should be said that "a vehicle battery cannot be charged completely by driving around"

npinks wrote:

Thats because its a matchbox one and on your desk

 2007 Freelander 2 HSE TD4 Manual with Premium Pack & Moonroof.
Stornoway Grey with Ebony Black Pleather, Clear Indicators, Body Side Mouldings etc.

By the way, as asinrute pointed out, did you know that in the case of FL2, the generator (alternator) - thus the charging of the battery - is controlled by the ECM (Engine Control Module), over a connection on a LIN bus?
So the charging of the battery on FL2 case is intelligently controlled, based on temperature, load, etc.

Another reason for control on the charging circuit is to keep in check the battery temp. As to higher rate of charging and the battery will keep rising in temperature.
If the battery was to be charged at to higher rate to quickly there is a danger of explosion. Different types of cells can charge much quicker than others, any excess charge would be discharged as heat. and heat can also kill the batteries state to hold a good chage in the first place.
On the whole there has to be a happy medium between storing enough charge for the electrical devices of the car etc on a daily basis.
Many short trips of stop starting will leave the battery in a weakend state and should you have adverse conditions then this is when you are going to have problems. Cold weather will reduce the amount of availible power the battery can supply for starting the engine along with the higher cranking demands due to cold thick oil moving more slowly arround the engine.
A final thought would be that over time all batteries start to loose the ability to hold or store charge in them thats why if you were to change battries on specified intervals then you would be getting the best of the battery and probably not be caught out in the cold when you least expect it

What an interesting subject, to me at least.
Yes, batt management is indeed a complex subject. You are quite correct about 'gassing'. Some VM's fit the battery in cab or in the boot. This is where you want the least gassing; we all know how volatile it is.
I've done some work for, lets say, a luxury UK VM where we fitted two batteries in the boot, one for cranking and one for the rest of the vehicle sytems.
We used a separate ECU so the crank battery would take most of the alterator output until it reached a threshold voltage then the machine would charge both. We could also swop to the non crank battery for starting should the crank battery voltage become low via a very big 'contactor'. Or even bring in both batteries together if needed. This seemed the best of both Worlds and worked very well.
Of course it's difficult to measure how healthy a battery is, the rate of dischage under load, say HRW, and the recovery time is a very useful guideline. And how many cranks per mile. Not to mention temperature. All these need to be taken in cosideration.

Having said all that, er indoors has a MX5 which is 16 years old and is the original battery and has been quite happy to turn the engine over at -13 deg while she uses headlamps, blower, HRW on both out and return journeys of only 6 miles.

Last edited by Pegleg on 3rd Dec 2010 9:27 pm. Edited 1 time in total

yes battery gas can be very dangerous, I know someone who nearly lost an eye when a battery blew up in his face as he was connecting it to a hgv. Also an ex-employee here sharpened a knife on a bench grinder. sparks flew over a battery on charge and the battery blew up.need less to say we moved the battery charger away from the grinder after that. At work
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CG,
Glad you understand. What can happen with your car battery is; say someone tries to jump start a discharged battery but puts the leads on the wrong way round. It happens i'm afraid. So by then the battery is gassing like mad. They realise what they've done wrong so swap the leads round and produce a dirty great big spark. Imagine if the battery was in the boot, or even worse as some BMW's. under the rear seat.
Glad ours is underbonnet, not completely safe but the best of the bunch.

Hi guys

I am glad to see that this thread is now developing in the right direction. Yes it was a mistake of mine, leaving the word "fully" (now corrected) out of the original posting.

I am reading with interest the experiences of you guys in Europe.

Big Dave
You were writing about your Triumph, what model was that? I had 3 Triumphs over the years, a TR6PI (CP) from 1974-1986, a Spitfire Mk3 from 1982-1986 and another TR6PI (CR) from 2000-2008  With kind regards
DiscoGeorge
1998 Disco1 ES 300Tdi with twin TrueTracs
2005 Disco3 TDV6 S
And some more serious stuff

Last edited by DiscoGeorge on 4th Dec 2010 4:18 am. Edited 1 time in total

Pegleg wrote:

What an interesting subject, to me at least.
Yes, batt management is indeed a complex subject. You are quite correct about 'gassing'. Some VM's fit the battery in cab or in the boot. This is where you want the least gassing; we all know how volatile it is.
I've done some work for, lets say, a luxury UK VM where we fitted two batteries in the boot, one for cranking and one for the rest of the vehicle sytems. We used a separate ECU so the crank battery would take most of the alterator output until it reached a threshold voltage then the machine would charge both. We could also swop to the non crank battery for starting should the crank battery voltage become low via a very big 'contactor'. Or even bring in both batteries together if needed. This seemed the best of both Worlds and worked very well.
Of course it's difficult to measure how healthy a battery is, the rate of dischage under load, say HRW, and the recovery time is a very useful guideline. And how many cranks per mile. Not to mention temperature. All these need to be taken in cosideration.

Having said all that, er indoors has a MX5 which is 16 years old and is the original battery and has been quite happy to turn the engine over at -13 deg while she uses headlamps, blower, HRW on both out and return journeys of only 6 miles.

Nope, sorry. We did it before BY614/615, but you're so very very close!!! Try almost twice the price.
Please try again before i give the game away.

Problem is with increasing alt output is that it blows bulbs like billy oh!
And we have to meet ISO requirements; ISO 3559 defines the system voltage and the maximum V.

The marine market, particularly sailing boats where battery capacity can be critical, has long had an issue with standard auto type alternators not recharging batteries fully. It is quite common to have 3 or 4 stage charging systems on alternators, either using "special" alternators or more commonly with aftermarket alternator controllers to obtain faster recharge rates and full recharge. Similar charging situations exist with motorhomes, emergency vehicles and military vehicles. The earlier comments on battery discharge levels and charging regimes are well known in these markets. By comparison the typical car battery does not have a very hard job to do and can get by without a full recharge during its life.

Ahoy,
Yes, i understand. Problem is that of gassing when the battery is not underbonnet and filament lifespan.
Big problem is with cars is that the total wattage consumption has increased so much that 12 volt can't keep up with demand.
42V is just around the corner, no volt drop problems and better for the new 'starternator' used on stop/start vehicles.
Should help us all in the long run although there are technical difficulties to overcome first.
But it will happen.

Pegleg wrote:

Nope, sorry. We did it before BY614/615, but you're so very very close!!! Try almost twice the price.
Please try again before i give the game away.

Problem is with increasing alt output is that it blows bulbs like billy oh!
And we have to meet ISO requirements; ISO 3559 defines the system voltage and the maximum V.

Hi Pegleg

in that case I tip on the Arnage T or Arnage R  With kind regards
DiscoGeorge
1998 Disco1 ES 300Tdi with twin TrueTracs
2005 Disco3 TDV6 S
And some more serious stuff

So if the battery doesn't charge fully should we be fitting CTek and plugging our cars in on a night?

People must have problems with their RRSports too Former Mod/Member, with the most post & Chicken George Arch nemesis

npinks wrote:

So if the battery doesn't charge fully should we be fitting CTek and plugging our cars in on a night?

People must have problems with their RRSports too

Hi npinks

the best procedure is as follows:

Daily Runners - every 6 weeks in summer charge over 2 consecutive nights or until green light comes on

" - every 4 weeks in winter charge over 2 consecutive nights or until green light comes on


Weekend cars - Either put each car on its own charger or rotate on a weekly basis with a maximum of 3 weeks between rotations.

Classic or collector's cars that are seldom driven, connect to a XS800 and leave connected until taking out for a drive.

We have found this to work very well.

On daily (modern) runners you will get the added advantage of better performance (on petrol cars) and much easier starting in winter (on diesel cars)  With kind regards
DiscoGeorge
1998 Disco1 ES 300Tdi with twin TrueTracs
2005 Disco3 TDV6 S
And some more serious stuff