Hi all,

The start of this story is that I had my clutch replaced by my local garage which happens to be a Ford dealership but he's looked after my FL2 ok. Shortly after the clutch replacement, I was getting noise in second, fifth and sixth gears with third and fourth being ok. Finally the gearbox packed in and it had to be towed. 2 years previously he replaced the starter motor.

Originally my mechanic told me he had a geabox on hand and he'd only charge me the labour €400. I thought great, why not. After no news for a while, I paid a personal visit, and the car was dismantled with the on-hand geabox beside - he shows and and tells me that unfortunately, it's the wrong gearbox. Getting one here in France would be expensive, so I looked in the UK. Sure enough, I found one for £140 with only 100k miles and had it shipped to France. Final cost to me was a nervous breakdown due to the importation red tape and €650. Still less than half the cost of getting it here in France.

So I finally get my invoice... over €2000 and the invoice includes a brand new starter motor, clutch and flywheel. I though it was some kind of mistake, since he already replaced the clutch, flywheel and starter motor over the last 2 years. I queried this and he told me "there is no error on the invoice, after the breakage of the gearbox these parts were damaged by the primary shaft of the gearbox."

I have no reason to mistrust him and I am in possesion of the vehicle but I visited in person and standing beside my dismantled vehicle he told me all I needed was a new gearbox. Surely this additional damage would have been evident then (would it?). If he had have told me then, I could have got all these parts from the uk in the same order and it wouldn't have cost much more - but the first mention of these is in the invoice.

So my question is this - does it sound likely that after geabox failure, the clutch, flywheel and starter motor would need replacing?

Even though I do trust him, I'm a little worried that the vehicle was with him for a long time and perhaps he was under pressure to recover some of the additional labour/storage costs?

Anyway - what would you do?

Thanks in advance!

Last edited by di11on on 19th Sep 2023 9:15 am. Edited 1 time in total

If the gearbox failed soon after having the clutch replaced, I'd suggest that no oil was put in the gearbox after the clutch was replaced.
I can't see how a gearbox failure can damage an entire clutch assembly sounds suspicious to me. Hyundai Ioniq 5 Ultimate. The family car.
2009 Rimini Red SE TD4. Gone.
2006 Tonga Green i6 HSE. Gone.
Audi A5 convertible, my daily driver.
1972 Hillman Avenger GT, the project.

Yeah, it doesn't make any sense to me how the starter, clutch and flywheel were damaged - considering he started it himself when it was towed back to see the issue.

Was the clutch replaced by the correct unit. From what you say the damage appears to around the clutch/flywheel area, with perhaps pressure being put on the gearbox input shaft.

To help understand the sequence of the gearbox failure I have copied some facts below

The synchronizing units are positioned on the shafts in the transmission as follows:
The synchronizing unit for 1st - 2nd gear is on the intermediate shaft 1st - 2nd, 5th - 6th
The synchronizing unit for 3rd - 4th gear is on the intermediate shaft 3rd - 4th
The synchronizing unit for 5th-6th gear is on the input shaft
The synchronizing unit for reverse gear is on the reverse shaft. FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 79k+ miles) (MY2015)
Metro in its 11th Year of (Extended) LR Warranty / Full LR Service History
(Expensive, but Trouble/Worry free - hopefully?)

Hi - that makes sense - I had a typo in my original post, the noise was coming from 2nd, 5th and 6th Gears.. then first also in the period just before failure. Perhaps it was not the correct clutch or installed incorrectly

It also makes sense that he saw that the clutch was not correct when replacing the gearbox and then replaced it and is trying to bill me for it

Hi again,

So interestingly, I'm looking at the invoice for the original clutch replacement. There is a single item, "Kit Embrayage Volant Moteur (Clutch and Flywheel Kit)" and the cost is €670 before tax. The only other item on the invoice apart from labour, is "Huile direction (Steering fluid)"

In the gearbox replacement invoice, there are two items listed seperately:
- Clutch kit for €450.50 before tax
- Flywheel kit for €400.50 before tax

So clearly, a different clutch kit was installed the second time, reinforcing the theory that the original unit was incorrect.

Also, in the geabox replacement invoice, there is item for 2 x oil 80/90. There was no equivalent in the original clutch replacement invoice. Would he have needed to replace the oil in the transmission to replace the cltuch, and perhaps this was not done, as the oil is missing from the invoice (only steering fluid).

So it seems clear to me that the original clutch replacement was carried out incorrectly and caused subsequent failure of the gearbox.

Would that make sense?

I haven't changed a FL2 clutch so cannot suggest actual reasons for your failures.

However the internet is full of info that suggests wrong part or incorrect fitting will damage flywheel.

For example

WHAT CAUSES FLYWHEEL DAMAGE?
There are several factors that contribute to premature wear and failure. Here are some of the most common causes:

Improper maintenance. If components such as a new starter or clutch are not installed properly, other parts could get damaged or become misaligned. To add to this point, if the clutch gets damaged, it is highly advisable to get it replaced as soon as possible. If you leave it, it will affect the flywheel, and clutches are much easier and cheaper to replace.

Engine condition and driving habits. For example, it could be caused by rough engine starts, heavy loads, driving in the wrong gear, and slow cranking speeds.

Overheating. This can be deadly for the discs as they can crack or warp, and it is often caused by a slipping clutch.

Also a damaged gearbox input bearing will make a noise, and any undue load on the input shaft may(?) misalign internal gearsets.

You need Nodge to tell you what the pitfalls of clutch changing on FL2 are. FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 79k+ miles) (MY2015)
Metro in its 11th Year of (Extended) LR Warranty / Full LR Service History
(Expensive, but Trouble/Worry free - hopefully?)

di11on wrote:

Hi again,

So interestingly, I'm looking at the invoice for the original clutch replacement. There is a single item, "Kit Embrayage Volant Moteur (Clutch and Flywheel Kit)" and the cost is €670 before tax. The only other item on the invoice apart from labour, is "Huile direction (Steering fluid)"

In the gearbox replacement invoice, there are two items listed seperately:
- Clutch kit for €450.50 before tax
- Flywheel kit for €400.50 before tax

So clearly, a different clutch kit was installed the second time, reinforcing the theory that the original unit was incorrect.

Also, in the geabox replacement invoice, there is item for 2 x oil 80/90. There was no equivalent in the original clutch replacement invoice. Would he have needed to replace the oil in the transmission to replace the cltuch, and perhaps this was not done, as the oil is missing from the invoice (only steering fluid).

So it seems clear to me that the original clutch replacement was carried out incorrectly and caused subsequent failure of the gearbox.

Would that make sense?

IIRC there is no need to drain the gearbox when removing it to access the clutch as it has a bolted flange that the prop shaft attaches onto. That is why you can still drive the car with the prop shaft removed.

A long time ago (early 1960s), when I was a lot stronger (and inexperienced) I managed to fit the wrong clutch in a Ford 100E Popular.

Long before computerised store systems, when you just had a storeman who just seemed to know all the bits and where he had put them, I was bought a waxed-paper wrapped clutch from the local dealer.

After a considerable struggle, under my car, in the camp car park, I got it all together. Only to find that the clutch dragged badly and gears were almost impossible to engage.

After a couple of tries of re-installing it I took it back, after re-inspecting it the storeman exchanged the Ford 93A clutch for the proper item, and it was a lot easier to fit, and it worked.

Please note that I would not be strong enough now to FORCE the wrong part in.

(The 93A sidevalve engine was an earlier version of the 100E sidevalve, both were fitted with 3 speed manual gear boxes)

So it used to be possible to fit similar clutches to cars although an experience mechanic should realise that it is becoming a bodge job. FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 79k+ miles) (MY2015)
Metro in its 11th Year of (Extended) LR Warranty / Full LR Service History
(Expensive, but Trouble/Worry free - hopefully?)

dondiddy wrote:

IIRC there is no need to drain the gearbox when removing it to access the clutch as it has a bolted flange that the prop shaft attaches onto. That is why you can still drive the car with the prop shaft removed.

Yes Nodge is correct! I was forgetting that the front driveshaft connected into the gearbox!