Hi folks. My daughter's car-59 reg manual, 60k miles-has developed a starting problem. She goes through the starting procedure but on inserting the "key" into the slot there's just no response-nothing, no lights from the instrument panel and no response from the starter button. She repeats the process-removes the key, locks up unlocks and re-inserts key and eventually after perhaps 6 or more goes it starts.
The problem was eventually diagnosed as the key and the gubbins in the slot you put it into not talking to each other (it happens with both keys) so the slot in the dashboard was replaced. Very expensive! The car started on collecting it but back to its old tricks this morning, so, so far a lot of money wasted. Anyone any ideas>
My daughter has also had problems with the door locks not operating but again intermittently-could this be connected? I thought if the door locks failed, they failed permanently not just occasionally.

I've had a look though previous "starting problem" threads but haven't found 1 that is identical and don't know where to go next so any advice would be appreciated.

Keith

There are several things that act as inhibitors to starting.
Have you any error codes? or read the online repair manual?

This thread has several ideas on the subject
https://www.freel2.com/forum/topic36248.ht...ering+lock

I will look at repair manual has start conditions listed as;

Starting Process

The ECM will only allow engine crank, spark and injector functions when the following conditions are met:

A hardwired Park/Neutral signal is received from the Transmission Control Module (TCM)
A hardwired ignition signal is received from the CJB
A hardwired crank request signal is received from the CJB
Encrypted data exchange between the instrument cluster and the ECM is verified.

Before the CJB will send the hardwired ignition signal, it must satisfactorily complete the following:

Exchange encrypted data with the start control module to validate the remote handset.

Additionally, before the CJB will send the hardwired crank request signal it must receive the following signals:

Brake signal from the speed control inhibit switch
Hardwired transmission in Park (P) or Neutral (N) signal from the selector lever assembly.

With the remote handset inserted in the start control module and the stop/start button is pressed, the start control module issues battery voltage high signal on the LIN bus connection to the CJB and the fuel pump is run for 2 seconds to prime the fuel system. The CJB uses this signal together with the stop lamp switch signal and issues a crank request message on the high speed CAN bus to the ECM.

The ECM, on receipt of the crank request message, then provides a power and ground supply to the starter relay in the BJB, closing the relay contacts. Battery voltage is supplied via a fuse through the starter relay and is passed to the starter motor solenoid coil. The coil is energized, closing the solenoid contacts and allowing a fuse battery voltage supply direct from the battery to operate the starter motor and crank the engine and simultaneously switch the fuel pump on.

The ECM operates the starter motor until the engine starts which is determined by the engine speed exceeding a pre-determined value. FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 77k+ miles) (MY2015)
Metro in its 11th Year of (Extended) LR Warranty / Full LR Service History
(Expensive, but Trouble/Worry free - hopefully?)

Last edited by IanMetro on 22nd Dec 2022 7:33 pm. Edited 1 time in total

For issues like this, it's almost certainly not the key dock, so that was misdiagnosed and really that should be on the person whom did the diagnosis.

The most likely culprit is the steering lock actuator. When the key is inserted, the steering lock pawl is supposed to retract, but sometimes it doesn't. Also the switch which tells the CJB that it has retracted doesn't always register this, normally both these issues are due to poor solder joints on the circuit board.

If the CJB doesn't see that the steering lock has released, then it will not allow the ignition to come on, which is I suspect the issue you have. Hyundai Ioniq 5 Ultimate. The family car.
2009 Rimini Red SE TD4. Gone.
2006 Tonga Green i6 HSE. Gone.
Audi A5 convertible, my daily driver.
1972 Hillman Avenger GT, the project.

Thanks for your replies and I'll pass them on to the people my daughter is dealing with.

Do either of you have any views on whether the starting and locking/unlocking problems might be related.

I guess that’s how cars o now, not scrapped for rust just electrical stuff. Would it be a mechanic or an auto electrician that would be the one who sorts stuff out like that.

KeithB wrote:

Thanks for your replies and I'll pass them on to the people my daughter is dealing with.

Do either of you have any views on whether the starting and locking/unlocking problems might be related.

Just a driver wrote:

I guess that’s how cars o now, not scrapped for rust just electrical stuff. Would it be a mechanic or an auto electrician that would be the one who sorts stuff out like that.

Yes, the problems are common yo both key fobs.

Probably too simple, but I always like to check the easy things first.... has she engaged the steering lock manually while it's been parked (by turning the wheel once engine is off)? If the steering lock is still engaged, you can put the key fob in fine, but you won't get dash lights, no response from start button... pretty much what you're seeing. If you put the key in and turn the wheel to disengage the lock, then she'll start. This sticks in my head because i've sat there for a few mins like a chump thinking "nooo, my car's dead!".

I've also had the car THINK the steering lock was on, when it wasn't. Only happened the once. Engage the steering lock, key in, disengage steering lock, THEN she'd start.

But yes, if not this, the symptoms could fit steering lock issues... they can develop a fault and basically lock you out of starting. Not had this issue myself, but i recall posts about this on here.

Last edited by Grue on 21st Dec 2022 8:12 pm. Edited 2 times in total

Hello Grue. I've never encountered that in 55 years of driving but I'll get her to give it a go tomorrow.

Good luck! Nothing worse than those problems that could possibly have an origin in multiple separate systems, and almost no way of diagnosing them yourself.

This was my 'car thinking steering lock was on' post:
https://www.freel2.com/forum/topic32830.html

I'll get back to you tomorrow.

I don't suppose there's anything in the owners manual about this Freelander eccentricity is there?

I've seen nothing admitting eccentricity from the FL2, although I will admit to some from the owners.

For example I have been baffled a few times to have a non-start on my car sometimes, only to find that I have moved the gear selector to quickly (absentmindedly!) into reverse too quickly after I have pressed start button. FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 77k+ miles) (MY2015)
Metro in its 11th Year of (Extended) LR Warranty / Full LR Service History
(Expensive, but Trouble/Worry free - hopefully?)

Interesting! I thought the key-in, key-out, hokey-cokey to get the ingition up and running was just one of those LR foibles! It's been normal for me for the last five years and 100k miles! Hasn't got worse over that time, didn't change with upgrading the keyfob. Once you are used to it is just a minor inconvenience!

On my first LR, the ignition key and half the lock barrel had been replaced by a mole wrench, so I guess I am not the most demanding customer! 2005 D3 2.7 Auto
Previously:
2010 MY FL2 TD4e GS - Now gone at 199,500 miles, about 135,000 of them mine.
‘93 Defender 110 200TDi CSW
‘87 Defender 90 4 cyl Petrol
‘83 110 CSW V8 - best ever!
Range Rover 2-door V8 (not sure of year - 4-speed box and vacuum diff switch)
Series III SWB Diesel

KeithB wrote:

Thanks for your replies and I'll pass them on to the people my daughter is dealing with.

Do either of you have any views on whether the starting and locking/unlocking problems might be related.

Had another thought, but I don't have time at the moment to investigate wiring diagrams.

Another possibility for common connection faults is the Power and Signal Earthing points.
As well as having good module battery and earth power connections, to get reliable module signals requires good signal earthing. I am sure as our cars get older these will become corroded and damaged (some are under the floor mats) and are common to quite separate electronic control modules.

Diagram of where earth points are;



The Central Junction Box controls lots of the locking functions;

Repair Manual says
OVERVIEW
The active anti-theft system monitors the hinged panels for unauthorized opening. In some markets the anti-theft system
also incorporates monitoring of the vehicle interior and vehicle tilt sensing.

The active anti-theft alarm system is controlled by the following body system control modules:

CJB
Left Hand (LH) and Right Hand (RH) front and rear door modules
Instrument cluster.

The CJB is the main controller in the system. The CJB controls the following security functions, in addition to other vehicle
functions:

Locking, double locking and unlocking
Monitoring of hinged panel microswitches and panel ajar states
Intrusion detection module
Battery backed sounder or vehicle horns
Passive arming and disarming
Panic alarm function
Remote handset transponder reading
Interior lighting.

Main CJB Earthing Point - G3D138

If working around CJB be very careful it controls and links many important things. FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 77k+ miles) (MY2015)
Metro in its 11th Year of (Extended) LR Warranty / Full LR Service History
(Expensive, but Trouble/Worry free - hopefully?)