Looking for a little bit of help.
Would like a couple of people who have the pre facelift diesel with manual gearbox, to check the engine speed during a cold crank. I would prefer information from a scan tool which would give a more accurate reading.
I know I am becoming a bit of a pest but I am running out of straws to clutch at.  Now at the point when I learn something new something old is lost out the other side !
Now retired so it doesn't matter anymore.
Freelander now gone.

I am happy to do it for you but have a 2011 with auto box. Does having a later model with the Auto Box make a difference

I’ll have a look tomorrow. It’s a bit late this evening.

I appreciate you taking the time to look for me.
As for the automatic gearbox, I have no idea if it would make any difference. My thinking was to keep it as close to mine as possible. I dare say it wouldn't harm to check though.
This is just another thread of thought I am looking at. Everyone has run out of ideas, so occasionally I have a stab at something that sounds like a good idea at the time.  Now at the point when I learn something new something old is lost out the other side !
Now retired so it doesn't matter anymore.
Freelander now gone.

First try - 950 rpm using the starter which then dropped to idle speed. Second try -900 rpm on the starter. The starter only spins for a couple of seconds.
2007 TD4 manual. 4 year old battery. Original glo plugs. I’m told they come on even when it isn’t cold to support ignition for the first few seconds, there just isn’t the delay that you get with sub zero temperatures.

Hi Bob
That is very interesting.
I am using a new scan tool, Icarsoft CR Max, and my readings are way too low. I disconnected the injectors first just to get as long as possible crank and my readings are between 182 and 197 rpm. Way too low.
This is with a fully charged battery less than a year old. Starter motor also less than a year old.
I put an amp clamp on the positive cable going to the starter at the battery and it was drawing approximately 26 amps. That's if I did it correctly.
I'm now thinking that the power supply to the starter motor is diminished by way of a poor cable.
I'll have to work something out to test that, as the existing one appears to have a special connection at the battery. Could try and fit a second one and see what happens.


As for the glow plugs, I'm sure Alex said they only come on at low temperature as dictated by the coolant temperature sensor. Not sure what that is but it normally equates to about 0 Deg. outside temperature.
Just checked the starter motor specifications, 12v 2kw that makes it 166amps and I am only showing 26amps, if I have measured it correctly.
Now have something to look at.

What would you say? Now at the point when I learn something new something old is lost out the other side !
Now retired so it doesn't matter anymore.
Freelander now gone.

This page from Land Rover mentions that the glow plugs operate if the engine is idling and cold.
https://www.freel2.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11383/glows.pdf
The battery is about 4 years old but well charged after a 110 mile round trip. The starter is at least 12 years old, I haven’t changed it, but it could be 15 years old.
The rpm are from the live view of Car Scanner connected via Bluetooth to my OBD2. Your rpm figure is way too low.

Thanks again for the information Bob.
I'm going to try a couple of things tomorrow and post any results.  Now at the point when I learn something new something old is lost out the other side !
Now retired so it doesn't matter anymore.
Freelander now gone.

26A doesn't sound right - you could get that through domestic 2.5mm wiring, and have smoked 16mm cable trying to start 2L diesels in the past.

In fact 26A x 12V is just over 300W - hair dryer motor would probably manage that.

Ball park figures 16mm welding cable would be good for 230A intermittent and only 135A continuous, and like said I have smoked that.

You did put the clamp on meter on DC? - just asking Tangiers Orange - gone, missing her
Replaced by Ewok what a mistake - now a happy Disco Sport owner

Hi Andy
Meter definitely on DC amps. 26 amps was all that the starter motor was able to pull.
Had a delve into it today and found the earth to the starter motor very crusty next to the ring connection under the insulation. Cleaned it up best I could as well as the positive at starter and battery connections. Now to be honest they all looked good at a glance.
Results..... Starter motor appears to be pulling approximately 130 - 150amps. Hard to check exactly as the meter is all over the place.
Engine is now cranking at between 750-800 rpm. Appears to be starting better but I need to see what it is like in the morning.
Think I could be on to something here.  Now at the point when I learn something new something old is lost out the other side !
Now retired so it doesn't matter anymore.
Freelander now gone.

Just a note regarding my last post.
It would appear obvious now but had I known what the cranking speed should be I would not have gone down so many rabbit holes.
Couldn't find it in my workshop manual and asked a couple of times on the forum with no luck.
That said, you would expect a Landrover specialist to know.

Hopefully this is the correct rabbit hole. I will post more information when I have it.  Now at the point when I learn something new something old is lost out the other side !
Now retired so it doesn't matter anymore.
Freelander now gone.

Generally, from what I've seen, Bosch ECU firmwares are programmed to forbid fueling below 250 RPM cranking speed. So...

I really do hope that you have found the cause of the poor starting.
“Obvious” once you have actually found it, annoying but relieved that the fix is so cheap and simple after all the time stress and money it has cost so far Tangiers Orange - gone, missing her
Replaced by Ewok what a mistake - now a happy Disco Sport owner

Hi Alex
Thanks for joining.
As far as I know the injectors have always fired. I fitted a noid light to the connectors to check. Also when the engine does start there is white smoke, which I assume is unburned fuel.

Andy
Thanks for the encouragement but you know what they say, don't count you chickens etc.
There have been so many times when we thought a solution was at hand. Will see what happens tomorrow.  Now at the point when I learn something new something old is lost out the other side !
Now retired so it doesn't matter anymore.
Freelander now gone.

Have done more checking today. We had to take a slow motion video of the clamp meter to be able to see the readings
During cranking it was pulling between 265 and 280 amps.
Unfortunately the starter motor was not doing quite as well.
It appeared to fluctuate wildly.
Crank speeds of between 180 and 700 rpm.
I think the starter motor has been damaged due to the fact that it has had to do so many long cranks over the past months.
Next step is to take it out and see if it is repairable.  Now at the point when I learn something new something old is lost out the other side !
Now retired so it doesn't matter anymore.
Freelander now gone.