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Simon J

Member Since: 27 Jul 2019
Location: Norn Iron
Posts: 703

2008 Freelander 2 TD4 XS Auto Rimini Red

I’d have to say that driving for some 300 miles on the skinny space saver caused me no concern at all, other than keeping my fingers crossed that I didn’t get another puncture. The car handled just fine while keeping to the 50 mph maximum and in fact afforded us a much more relaxed tour to County Cork and back than had I had full use of the T5 engine! The tyres have to meet certain braking standards in order to be type approved so their grip isn’t all that bad, especially at restricted speeds.

And I don’t think anyone is suggesting any 'work arounds'. They’re legal to use below 50 mph and perfectly adequate in terms of grip at those speeds and with a load capacity that is at least the match of the car's GVW. What’s not to like?

24th Mar 2022 7:48 pm

jules

Member Since: 13 Dec 2007
Location: The Wilds of Warwickshire
Posts: 4946

2014 Freelander 2 SD4 SE Auto Firenze Red

If you have a front tyre puncture on a FWD car is it best to put the space saver on the rear and move a rear tyre to the front ? (assuming front and rear are the same).

This question came up when someone (on another forum) thought that their space saver would not clear the larger diameter brakes on the front wheel. But I wondered about the effect on steering and braking (usually a job for the front tyres) from the asymmetric tyre setup with a space saver on the front. Jules

24th Mar 2022 8:15 pm

Simon J

Member Since: 27 Jul 2019
Location: Norn Iron
Posts: 703

I had to do that as the space saver wheel wouldn’t clear the larger front brakes on the Volvo but it would seem to make sense to do that in any case, especially if the radius/diameter of the space saver was significantly different to that of the standard tyre. This is quite a useful site for comparing different tyre sizes - https://tiresize.com/comparison/

24th Mar 2022 8:20 pm

Andy131

Member Since: 09 Dec 2009
Location: Manchester
Posts: 2175

I usually get punctures in the rear - objects thrown up by front tyre?
With the caravan that was the case, take good wheel off the front, fit space saver to front then put what was the front wheel on the rear.
Working on the principle that the weight on the front axle is fairly constant, but the back axle weight loaded boot to the roof, 150KG tow ball downforce.

Luckily the FL2 /DS space saver fits over the larger D240 discs Tangiers Orange - gone, missing her
Replaced by Ewok what a mistake - now a happy Disco Sport owner

24th Mar 2022 9:45 pm

Simon J

Member Since: 27 Jul 2019
Location: Norn Iron
Posts: 703

The space saver tyre supplied with a vehicle is rated at at least half the maximum axle loads of the vehicle. The standard skinny Pirelli 18” tyre has a 104 load rating, i.e. 900 kgs. So perfectly adequate to keep on the rear while towing. They really are very cunningly designed items.

24th Mar 2022 9:51 pm

ozjeff62

Member Since: 28 May 2018
Location: Sydney, NSW
Posts: 494

2011 Freelander 2 SD4 SE Auto Ipanema Sand

Simon J wrote:
Interestingly, breaching the 50 mph limit isn’t in itself an offence like breaking the 70 mph limit would be; but driving at over 50 mph removes the exemption that temporary use spare tyres (TUST) have from the requirement to be suitable for the vehicle, etc., etc. as set out in Regulation 27 (1) (a) of the 1986 C&U regs.

CUT ... The law is silent on what constitutes 'temporary' and makes no mention of emergency use nor does it place any limit on how far they can be driven. SNIP .

"temporary"
In another part of the legislation/regulation will be an appendix or glossary containing the legal definition of words used within the rest of the text. So in those regs which you have quoted the word "temporary" will be used without explanation - the definition will be in yet another place.
Failing that, if it has not been defined, it will be up to case law and subsequent precedent for courts to determine what "temporary" means. In this case you have to search case law for judgements.
That's why we employ lawyers, barristers, clerks, magistrates and such. It becomes too complex for lay people - unless you have a lot of time, and a lot of resources.

So in this case, we are probably wasting our time. It's on the side of the tyre, in the manual, on the tyre placard. The manufacturer didn't put it there just for a laugh.

The clue lies in the MOT fail. As a copper I was able to defect cars. Some defects could put a car off the road instantly, some would not. Some would have a longer period or a different process for allowing the car to be driven on the road again.
Some things that are a MOT fail do not make it illegal to use the motor vehicle for a particular use. Such as driving it to a MOT inspection. Did you see Edd China driving that terrible Range Rover to the MOT station? They actually refused to inspect it as it was such a piece of dangerous rubbish. But on the trip to the MOT station, and on the way to the place of repair, it was legally driven although it was indeed legally unroadworthy. I've done the same. MY11 SD4 SE Auto

27th Mar 2022 11:00 am

Jagracer

Member Since: 22 Feb 2019
Location: east anglia
Posts: 182

2009 Freelander 2 TD4 GS Manual Bali Blue

Why not save the hassle and fit a full size spare, carried in the boot. My FL2 has a Labelon the spare as if it is a spacesaver, but it is a steel wheel with a 225/65r17 Hancook correct load rated tyre. So why a label? Just swap for an alloy with a 235/65R17 tyre, job done. If you have a different size, then have five wheels all the same. Make sure the spare is not directional.

27th Mar 2022 2:29 pm

Nodge68

Member Since: 15 Jul 2020
Location: Newquay
Posts: 2071

2009 Freelander 2 TD4 SE Manual Rimini Red

jules wrote:
If you have a front tyre puncture on a FWD car is it best to put the space saver on the rear and move a rear tyre to the front ? (assuming front and rear are the same).

This question came up when someone (on another forum) thought that their space saver would not clear the larger diameter brakes on the front wheel. But I wondered about the effect on steering and braking (usually a job for the front tyres) from the asymmetric tyre setup with a space saver on the front.

When I had an MG ZS180, the space saver wouldn't fit over the front brakes, so a puncture on the front meant fitting the space saver to the rear, the good rear tyre was then fitted to the front. This issue was unique to the ZS180, as the lower powered ZS models had smaller front brakes, so the space saver fitted just fine on the front.

In reality, providing the spare fits the brakes, I can't see where it fits is much of an issue, although with a really skinny spare, braking heavily will be effected. Hyundai Ioniq 5 Ultimate. The family car.
2009 Rimini Red SE TD4. Gone.
2006 Tonga Green i6 HSE. Gone.
Audi A5 convertible, my daily driver.
1972 Hillman Avenger GT, the project.

27th Mar 2022 2:36 pm

Simon J

Member Since: 27 Jul 2019
Location: Norn Iron
Posts: 703

Jagracer wrote:
Why not save the hassle and fit a full size spare, carried in the boot. My FL2 has a Labelon the spare as if it is a spacesaver, but it is a steel wheel with a 225/65r17 Hancook correct load rated tyre. So why a label? Just swap for an alloy with a 235/65R17 tyre, job done. If you have a different size, then have five wheels all the same. Make sure the spare is not directional.

The lower speed rating of the Hankook tyre - H vs V - would presumably fall foul of Regulation 27 (1) (a) of the C&U Regs 1986 which relates to the suitability of a tyre having regard to the tyres on the other wheels. But the lower speed rating would also mean that the tyre is classified as a temporary use spare tyre - see Regulation 3 - Interpretation - of the C&U Regs - and thus Regulation 27 (1) (a) would not apply provided the vehicle was driven at a speed of less than 50 mph by virtue of Regulation 27 (3). Hence the 50 mph sticker. There’s no such thing as a 'space saver' as far as the Regulations are concerned - it’s whether or not the tyre is classified as a 'temporary use spare tyre' that determines the need for the sticker.

But I’d agree - if space permits, get hold of a matching wheel and tyre. But if space doesn’t permit, the space saver temporary use spare tyre is a good alternative.

And there is no definition of 'temporary' in the Interpretation Regulation I refer to above, just a definition of 'temporary use spare tyre' with no mention of what is meant, if anything, by temporary. So it’s really hard to see what offence you could be committing by using a 'temporary use spare tyre' other than if the tread were to be worn below the legal minimum of 1.6mm.

27th Mar 2022 10:17 pm

jules

Member Since: 13 Dec 2007
Location: The Wilds of Warwickshire
Posts: 4946

Nodge68 wrote:

In reality, providing the spare fits the brakes, I can't see where it fits is much of an issue, although with a really skinny spare, braking heavily will be effected.

My old BMW had 245 wide tyres on the front and 265 on the rear. The BMW supplied space saver was 125 wide - I drove very carefully when I had cause to use it. Jules

27th Mar 2022 10:52 pm

Andy131

Member Since: 09 Dec 2009
Location: Manchester
Posts: 2175

Just a note - full sized steel wheels still have a 50mph Limit - WHY, because the wheel bolt shoulders are profiled for alloy wheels. If you wanted to go faster with the steel wheel you would need to carry a set of wheel bolts that are correct for steel wheels.

Edit - should be wheel nuts Tangiers Orange - gone, missing her
Replaced by Ewok what a mistake - now a happy Disco Sport owner

Last edited by Andy131 on 27th Mar 2022 11:13 pm. Edited 1 time in total

27th Mar 2022 10:56 pm

Lightwater

Member Since: 21 Aug 2014
Location: Sydney Northern Beaches
Posts: 4905

2013 Freelander 2 2.0T SE Auto Fuji White

In outback Australia I plug the tyre myself like everyone else, also have TPMS to catch the leak before the tyre is destroyed. No road service out there. Procrastination, mankind's greatest labour saving device!

Acoustic insulation ARB TPMS 3xARB air compressors After cooler Air tank On-board OCD pressure air/water cleaning Additional 50L fuel Carpet in doors ABE 2x1kg Waeco 28L modified fridge Battery 4x26ah Solar 120w Victron MPPT 100/20 DC-DC 18amps 175amp jumper plug Awning 6x255/60R18

27th Mar 2022 11:04 pm

MotionInc

Member Since: 17 Jun 2019
Location: North America
Posts: 1343

Andy131 wrote:
Just a note - full sized steel wheels still have a 50mph Limit - WHY, because the wheel bolt shoulders are profiled for alloy wheels. If you wanted to go faster with the steel wheel you would need to carry a set of wheel bolts that are correct for steel wheels.

Excellent point!

27th Mar 2022 11:05 pm

Simon J

Member Since: 27 Jul 2019
Location: Norn Iron
Posts: 703

Andy131 wrote:
Just a note - full sized steel wheels still have a 50mph Limit - WHY, because the wheel bolt shoulders are profiled for alloy wheels. If you wanted to go faster with the steel wheel you would need to carry a set of wheel bolts that are correct for steel wheels.

Edit - should be wheel nuts

If the steel wheel carries a temporary use spare tyre, e.g. the Hankook 225/65 R17, then you are still limited to 50 mph regardless of what wheel nuts you use.

28th Mar 2022 5:41 am

Jagracer

Member Since: 22 Feb 2019
Location: east anglia
Posts: 182

I have never met a member of Plod who has ever furthered his pension by pullin someone for spare tyres other than the canvas showing, which used to be legal once. Its worth noting that some FL2 wheel sizes will take a Commercial tyre on the spare, correct speed and load. It is common to the Ford Courier van.

29th Mar 2022 10:31 am

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