Something to be aware of. I did the timing belt on my wife's Peugeot 207 last year. After I had completed the job and run the engine for a little while I removed the timing belt cover (it's a 30 second job to unclip it and see inside) and to my horror noticed that the tensioner pointer had moved and seemed to be in a different position every time I stopped the engine. Having checked everything over for tightness I was advised that this is normal as it depends on how the engine stops (sometimes the compression will make the engine go back a few degrees after stopping) but a bit scary when you first see it. Anyway it has run for nearly a year and several thousand miles with no problems. 3 x FL1 2 manual + 1 auto
5 x FL2 4 manual + 1 auto
Now Discovery Sport P250 MHEV SE

Dorset:
thanks for the warning! Do you agree it depends on the tension in that run of belt? I think this would also be affected by camshaft position (valve spring pressure) as well as the crank bouncing off compression.

Bob:
thanks. I had seen that video too & agree it has more detail. Can you confirm if the tensioner sits on a stud in the block or is it a bolt?

Anyone:
Confirmation of the torque for the crank pulley bolt. 70Nm+60deg or 70Nm+82deg?

I've not done a cambelt before so want to have all the details clear in my mind before going in there. Sorry if my questions seem odd but like all things it's easy once you know.

Beginning to wish I had bought an i6..

Not done one or my own FL2 so no idea about any more than I glean off the net or on here. Mine is still quite some time from needing doing

I once made the mistake of thinking all cam belts were similar 35 years go. You used to let many bed in and re-tension but I had a Fiat. It was do it and leave it but I did not know that. Sod went and split off a couple of weeks after I re-tension-ed it, stripped it down just to be sure and nothing was bent as I had killed the engine as soon as I realised it was going but a lot of work for nothing.  FL2 MY10 TD4 GS traded in at 2 years
FL2 MY13 TD4 GS Current

Last edited by Yorky Bob on 20th Jan 2017 9:50 am. Edited 1 time in total

sounds like you were very lucky there not to lunch that engine...

That's the kind of mistake I am trying to avoid

littletriple wrote:

Hi all,

I am thinking of doing my own cam belt this year (45k mls & 10yrs old)

Have read & watched everything I can find & it looks to be time consuming rather than difficult. However I already have a couple of questions...

There is provision for a locking pin through the flywheel to hold the crankshaft but some tool kits seem to contain a second locking device, a plate which bolts to the starter motor mounting points. It has a tooth which engages with the flywheel. Why is this required if the crank is already locked with the pin?

The cam belt drive pinion on the crankshaft is not directly located by the the key & is able to move a few degrees relative to the crank which will alter the cam timing. I haven't been able to find out how this is adjusted. It seems that the pinion is clamped in place when the bolt retaining the crankshaft pulley is tightened but how do I ensure it is correctly set?

Silly question.. but how is the tensioner fixed to the engine? The idler has a central bolt, does it have the same?

You really will need a flywheel holding tool. The crank bolt is very tight all the way out and you will need to hold that flywheel solid in the exact position when torquing the crank bolt back up.
A universal one is what I used.
https://www.toolden.co.uk/p/sealey-vse5945...WdEALw_wcB Past: FL2 TD4 HSE Auto
Evoque SD4 Dynamic Lux Auto
Present: Audi A3 S Line.

MRRover75 wrote:

littletriple wrote:

Hi all,

I am thinking of doing my own cam belt this year (45k mls & 10yrs old)

Have read & watched everything I can find & it looks to be time consuming rather than difficult. However I already have a couple of questions...

There is provision for a locking pin through the flywheel to hold the crankshaft but some tool kits seem to contain a second locking device, a plate which bolts to the starter motor mounting points. It has a tooth which engages with the flywheel. Why is this required if the crank is already locked with the pin?

The cam belt drive pinion on the crankshaft is not directly located by the the key & is able to move a few degrees relative to the crank which will alter the cam timing. I haven't been able to find out how this is adjusted. It seems that the pinion is clamped in place when the bolt retaining the crankshaft pulley is tightened but how do I ensure it is correctly set?



Silly question.. but how is the tensioner fixed to the engine? The idler has a central bolt, does it have the same?

Hi all!

I am about to do the timing belt on mine. Its now 14 years old and done 188000miles. The belt has been replaced earlier at about 7 years/80000mile, so this would the second change. All neccesary parts are bought so basically ready to start. I will fabricate the locating pins from some M8 12.9 bolts. I do not have the crankshaft locking tool refered to several places but I see that this is not used in the Dayco video. Is this one really neccesary? Could it be done without? I have done several others where we put it in high gear and stamped the brakes when removing/tightening the bolt. Not sure if this will work here?

Any experience/advice?

You need to lock the flywheel, so it can't turn a fraction.
Using the brakes via the gearbox allows the crank to rotate, which will then lock the "floating" bottom cam belt pulley in the wrong place, putting the timing out.

Use the correct equipment, or get someone who's done it before with the correct equipment. The locking tools aren't actually that expensive, so it's still a worthwhile DIY job, but do it correctly.  Hyundai Ioniq 5 Ultimate. The family car.
2009 Rimini Red SE TD4. Gone.
2006 Tonga Green i6 HSE. Gone.
Audi A5 convertible, my daily driver.
1972 Hillman Avenger GT, the project.

MRRover75 wrote:

littletriple wrote:

Hi all,

I am thinking of doing my own cam belt this year (45k mls & 10yrs old)

Have read & watched everything I can find & it looks to be time consuming rather than difficult. However I already have a couple of questions...

There is provision for a locking pin through the flywheel to hold the crankshaft but some tool kits seem to contain a second locking device, a plate which bolts to the starter motor mounting points. It has a tooth which engages with the flywheel. Why is this required if the crank is already locked with the pin?

The cam belt drive pinion on the crankshaft is not directly located by the the key & is able to move a few degrees relative to the crank which will alter the cam timing. I haven't been able to find out how this is adjusted. It seems that the pinion is clamped in place when the bolt retaining the crankshaft pulley is tightened but how do I ensure it is correctly set?

Silly question.. but how is the tensioner fixed to the engine? The idler has a central bolt, does it have the same?

Hi all!

I am about to do the timing belt on mine. Its now 14 years old and done 188000miles. The belt has been replaced earlier at about 7 years/80000mile, so this would the second change. All neccesary parts are bought so basically ready to start. I will fabricate the locating pins from some M8 12.9 bolts. I do not have the crankshaft locking tool refered to several places but I see that this is not used in the Dayco video. Is this one really neccesary? Could it be done without? I have done several others where we put it in high gear and stamped the brakes when removing/tightening the bolt. Not sure if this will work here?

Any experience/advice?

You’ve already got your answer (twice), so I’ll just bump my post count x 1

ps. I don’t think your belt even needs changing does it? (Now Sold). 2008 Freelander 2 (Nazca Sand) SE TD4 Auto. Statutory write off & on WOVR for hail damage but still road legal.
171037Km as of 09/05/22
Superchips Bluefin Flash
Nanocom Evo II (also sold)

Having recently changed my cambelt - a few comments
1) The flywheel timing pin is not very substantial and without the flywheel locking device you are likely to sheer the timing pin when undoing or torqueing up the crankshaft bolt.
2) Later cars have a different reluctor ring - keyed onto the crank shaft - it doesn't need set screws to remove it.
3) Be very careful not to drop anything into the large hole where the starter motor sits.
4) on later cars the starter motor is held with 3 identical bolts Jules

Steve D wrote:

You really will need a flywheel holding tool. The crank bolt is very tight all the way out and you will need to hold that flywheel solid in the exact position when torquing the crank bolt back up.
A universal one is what I used.
https://www.toolden.co.uk/p/sealey-vse5945...WdEALw_wcB

Can`t disagree on your comments. its the most "political correct" to use the locking tools and avoids any hazzle during the process.... I will see how I can get this tool in the first place. Not as easy in Norway as in the UK....

Some thoughts/assumptions to challenge this statement:

I am pretty sure I can do this without, but not sure If I want to run into any trouble in the middle of the job.

By using the slick end of a M8 12.9 bolt as locking pin, my calculations shows that this one will shear of at about 4701Nm if it is situated 150mm from the crankshaft centre. There is of course a lot of factors that will lower this value, but it is still way over the specified 70Nm. Not sure how much torque the +80 deg generates, but still a lot less.
The tightening of the crankshaft is basically done in two steps:
1. The state from a free rotating crankshaft sprocket to a locked up sprocket - This is achieved long before the initial 70Nm
2. The torque tightening of the bolt - This stage will not alter the position of the crankshaft sprocket. Why? Because the sprocket is clamped between two faces that already are rotational locked/fixed towards the crankshaft. One side is the crankshaft flange, the other is the keyed washer between the crankshaft pulley and the sprocket.

By this, it would be possible to time up the engine with the pins, tighten the pulley bolt to the first stage, then remove both timing pins and to the final stage by holding the crankshaft by the highest gear and brakes or chock something in the starter gear. At the end, Verify timing by inserting the pins back in. Loosening of the bolt can be done in the same way without locking the positions as the engine needs to be timed up anyway. It will not go far out of timing when loosening due to the wide groove in the sprocket against the crankshaft.

As stated, I will look around for the locking tool, but are pretty sure it can be done without

P.S.

I did study a picture of the DMF found on Ebay. The hole for the timing pin in the flywheel are located in a plate that is fixed to the flywheel with 8 rivets. Looking at this, the timing pin would not be the limiting factor regarding the torque stated above, but the DMF itself as those small rivets might not hold the great torque:



Shearing these means a ruined DMF and a gearbox out operation. Has been there doing the clutch, so not tempting to do it again

Still, the above statement would be feasible, but excessive torque shall be avoided when using the timing pin...

All this made things clearer

Last edited by MRRover75 on 29th Oct 2021 9:11 am. Edited 1 time in total

An M8 bolt in the timing hole of the flywheel will bend, long before the 70Nm initial tightening torque. An M8 might well shear at 4700Nm, but there's a good 10mm of gap between the engine back plate and the flywheel, which is plenty of space to simply bend a small diameter bolt.

Good luck though.  Hyundai Ioniq 5 Ultimate. The family car.
2009 Rimini Red SE TD4. Gone.
2006 Tonga Green i6 HSE. Gone.
Audi A5 convertible, my daily driver.
1972 Hillman Avenger GT, the project.

Hi, the secondary locking tool is a fail safe idea. I use a Dormer 8mm drill shank (the parallel end) as a dowel. I also have lengths of Tool Steel and Tool Steel Dowels in my toolbox. A 12.9 8mm bolt will shear at a 3 tonne load. Do not use cheap carbon steel bolts, they are unreliable for strength. I do not recommend using the threaded end a bolt for locating dowel holes, they are smaller and weaker than the plain end, they are for clamping only, looseness will cause it to bend under a side load.

MRRover75.

As you will no doubt discover the crank bolt is something else as far as removal and correct tightening goes. There are ways and means to make the job easier.

Myself I shudder at the thought of not using the correct locking tool on the starter gear.

Are you feeling lucky?

Hi, I released the centre bolt with a Dewalt impact nut runner. The Dual Mass flywheels have a set of Torque Straps that operate in tension one way, ie, in the direction of Crank Rotation. You are right to be cautious, a better method would be for the manufacturer to have a locking method that sets the parts of the clutch and flywheel in their optimum position every time one works on them. In reality, the clutch assembly is lifed at 150 thousand miles, the replacement clutch at 40,000 miles. Modern throw away society. The arguement given for dual mass flywheels is advert, not reality, the engine runs no smoother, and one cannot heel and toe the gear changes. A solid flywheel is serviceable, and does the job without falling apart. There is a Fl2 on Ebay at the moment with 372k miles on the clock. It should go in a Museum as a freak Fl2. Most seem to start falling apart at 150k miles.