Are the ratios in the LR auto box the same as found in other vehicles that use the same engine and box or are the LR ratios unique to LR?

Even if they are the same, for sure the ECU maps are different, the mounting points are different, the chassis is different and so more differences.
And all those differences make the difference.

Take an electric toothbrush that is vibrating and put it on a brick, then on a table, then on a tea cup and you'll see that even if the brush is vibrating with the same speed and intensity, the sound and feel of the ensemble will be different. The same with the engine and the box.

Pinhead wrote: I think this is an auto box issue and the reason you don't get it in a manual may be easy to explain

Plus one for the 1800-2000 rpm band vibration / resonance issue being auto box / torque converter related, I came to that conclusion some time ago, see history.
I don't believe that it is a coincidence that all posters this thread so far are auto owners.

The problem certainly seems to be related to the auto gearbox, but it doesn’t seem to be as a result of a fault with the gearbox - rather, as Alex has said, the auto box installation creates a set of circumstances unique to the FL2 that result in the resonance/vibration. But how to identify what exactly is happening to cause it and thus fix it? We must assume it was never identified as a problem when the cars were new and that it only became apparent as the miles clocked up which rather suggests wear somewhere, but where?

All engines vibrate, and I am sure that the makers of the cars spend a lot of time and money trying to damp these down, as they can cause havoc with the reliability of other components.

I find it easier to understand what is happening by thinking of the vibration as a musical note, and then realising it is a wave moving from its source, and can be amplified or attenuated before it is transmitted into your ear.

Just like waves hitting a sea wall and rebounding you can get interference patterns of increased noise, and also the size, shape and mass will give rise to harmonics, of which the 3rd harmonic is particularly prominant in a 4 cylinder in line engine at about 4000 rpm.

Equally, as above, anything else on a car that moves also has a resonant frequency at which noise is made and amplified.

Also these harmonics can add together to change the character of of the sound, odd harmonics sound harsher, and even produce a richer nicer sound.

So if your car starts making more noise as it gets older, then blame either the resonant damping (mounts?) wearing, screws/panels/clearences getting looser, or similar allowing you to hear what was most likely there all the time.

As has been pointed out, uneven firing as the injectors wear, will increase certain vibrations of the engine.

Unfortunately unusual/new sounds are often the first signs of something going wrong and an imminent warning of failure. FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 77k+ miles) (MY2015)
Metro in its 11th Year of (Extended) LR Warranty / Full LR Service History
(Expensive, but Trouble/Worry free - hopefully?)

I’ve been following this thread with interest. My diesel MANUAL has 108K on the clock, and has had an on/off vibration for a year or more. You can feel it though your seat, and at its worst it pulses harmonically (as though two different sized cogs were reacting when the same set of teeth were coming round to mesh again). There’s no real noise... just a ‘feeling’, and it’s not got dramatically worse with time. The gut thought is that it’s from the rear, suggesting the diff or associated components..

But my repairer can’t detect anything there without an expensive (and possibly fruitless) strip-down. He HAS found seized rear brake components and a broken top engine mount... both now dealt with, and no improvement. There are certain stretches of road where I’m likely to feel this... but it doesn’t seem to be surface related, as sometimes it doesn’t happen there. Probably, though, I’m usually driving in the same way at these spots, so the physical location isn't important in itself so much as the usual speed/load etc. If there IS a common theme, it may be slight but not fierce acceleration.

As an example, I recently pulled from a side road onto the Malton Bypass, and thought the car would shake itself to pieces. But after turning onto the Pickering road I had a wonderful smooth run home over the North York Moors... one of the best drives I’ve had in ages.

I shall report the suggestions here to my repairer, watch the engine speed when it occurs, and if we have any success I’ll report back.

HI, if you trawl through Volvo forums, the vobration is often caused by worn bearings in the bevel box due to old oil. I have a Volvo V70 T6 AWD. It often locks in a low gear, then lets go with a bang. This is a result of a worn valve block in the Auto gearbox, a £500 fix for a new valve block. One often gets a sympathetic vibration in a driveline due to a worn prop shaft centre bearing, and/or mounting isolation bushes.

But surely we’ve established that the vibration/resonance in question at 1800 rpm is unrelated to road speed or transmission?

Hi, all things that rotate have a vibration couple that appears at different speeds. Aisin Warner, in their service manual state that the Valves in the Valve Block oscillate at certain pressures and the balls wear tracks in the connecting drillings inside the block. The gearbox eventually cannot continue to keep within its programmed parameters. On some gearboxes the driveplate can crack. Bad drive shaft couplings can give a sympathetic vibration, especially at extreme angles betreen the relative shafts.
So, finding a specific combination of rotational speeds is a bit hit and miss. I did a course some years ago ar Westland Helicopters technical school some years ago, its a fascinatng subject. WW2 American Bombers used to fall apart in flight with excessive vibration and metal fatigue, I had an aquaintance who ignored a vibrating propshaft once, it eventually snapped and dropped in the road, and came up through the floor as the car climbed over it when it dug into the road!

Hello all,
I've been reading these threads with interest as our 2014 FL2 SD4 XS Auto has started this same judder / vibration at between 1500 and 1700 RPM. Otherwise its fine, pulls like a train. As others have found if you put it in sport mode it is much better.
So far I have:

Swapped rear / front wheels round,
Replaced both front drive shafts
Auto box scanned (no errors)
Auto box flushed,
Haldex serviced

Nothing made much of a difference, only does it when going up a slight incline. It shudders for a bit just like being in a manual in the wrong gear, then kicks down no problem. I did find that if I removed fuse FB6 to disable the Haldex it wasn't as bad, but the engine seemed to rev higher with the fuse out, but I'm guessing that is down to less load with the Haldex pump not running. As it was at higher revs it seemed to stop doing it.

After adding 2 tubes of instant shudder fix it made a big improvement. I know its a temporary fix but I figured it was a quick way of confirming the problem rather than throwing money at it changing parts.

I'm 95% certain this its the torque converter. I've been quoted £3k for removing the gearbox, checking the valves and replacing the torque converter. Does that sound about right? Seems a bit expensive. I don't even want to think about asking LR how much they'd charge.

Any help / advice would be great, thanks ____________________________

FL2 SD4 XS - Current
FL2 TD4 GS (Auto) - Gone
FL1 TD4 Freestyle (Auto) - Gone

Most likely Torque Converter. In your shoes I would contact Driver Transmissions in Birmingham have a chat with them. Might be worth taking the car to them for a diag.

Thanks for the reply, problem is we're in Devon so its a hell of a way to go. Did a long drive over the last two days and even with the shudder fix added it seems to be getting worse, close to undrivable in steady motorway traffic. Been quoted £3580 by LR this morning for the job - which is crazy. Its still under warranty (dealer supplied via a warranty company) but no one local to us wants to know regarding the warranty as apparently these companies don't pay out easily - which does beg the question what is the point of them?

Am frustrated that we didn't pick this up on the test drive, but was so busy flooring it looking for Haldex issues that I think we must have inadvertently driven around the problem!

I'll ring round a few more places, but don't think I'll have much luck. My family has always had Land Rovers of one type or another, I'm going off them fast as every one we ever get always seems to have problems a few months in. This one may well be the last. The last 3 have all had good solid, reliable engines, but the drivetrains are made of cheese. ____________________________

FL2 SD4 XS - Current
FL2 TD4 GS (Auto) - Gone
FL1 TD4 Freestyle (Auto) - Gone

Doesn't cost much for a phone call the guys in Birmingham.

You could have the car recovered to them and still be quids in. When I was there a few years ago I was speaking in their office talking about prices and what others charge. One of the chaps pointing out the window said "see that car being off loaded, its come from Edinburgh the owner told us he is saving a fortune having us do it"

Their website is crap though

As you will see I’ve been on a quest to find the source of my vibration for a long time now and eventually decided to give up after replacing many things with no improvement and it has never really got any worse tbh, but I’m not convinced you have the same issue as the rest of us as everyone with the problem is driving older td4 autos and I’ve not heard of any facelift sd4 with this problem so I would definitely get a thorough diagnosis first before shelling out on a suspect torque converter, check fault codes , driveshafts, prop shaft , serpentine belt tensioner , all engine mounts , throttle body , harmonic crank pulley , exhaust mountings . I was put off changing my gearbox and torque converter at a price of £500 for a second hand one but £3500 wow definitely need to be sure . Please keep us updated .

Thanks all for the advice. Much appreciated. I might just give the chaps in Birmingham a ring.

It gets worse though! The price I was quoted was ex VAT! So its booked in for a new TC and refurb of the gear box, but not for a while yet so I've got time to keep investigating. Otherwise its £4200! Not with LR though, going to a transmission specialist.

Exhaust mounts are ok, there's no play in the prop or rear drive shafts. Fronts have been changed. Will check the engine mounts this weekend. As it only seems to happen when under load and makes the whole car shudder I figured it had to be transmission related. Taking the haldex fuse out also made it rev higher and so again pointed to something in the drivetrain.

I have noticed one other thing though, when at speed on the motorway there is a slight wobbly wheel type feeling that I have put down to a warped front disc. I can also hear the brake pads moving in the callipers when braking - we had a Mazda bongo once that did the same thing. So need to get those changed. I did wonder if that might be messing things up with an ABS sensor or something which was giving an incorrect speed reading and therefore the car isn't kicking down when it should as the revs drop right down when it does it as if its going to stall. A long shot I know. ____________________________

FL2 SD4 XS - Current
FL2 TD4 GS (Auto) - Gone
FL1 TD4 Freestyle (Auto) - Gone