Hi folks, I'm looking recommendations for a new welder. I was looking to buy an arc welder for general fabrication of angle / box steel but I see that inverters have pretty much taken over from traditional transformer arc welders. I see you can get combined versions that include mig / tig facility. I've used both arc and mig previously and they both have their benefits. Not looking to spend a huge amount, it will only be for occasional hobby use but if I was to tackle a car restoration it would be good to have a suitable welder available.


Something like this perhaps?

https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/13793-sip-...30-synerg/ Landrover - turning owners into mechanics since 1948

2014 Orkney grey Freelander SD4 GS.
2004 Zambezi silver Discovery 2 Td5 (Gone)
1963 Surf blue Morris Mini Minor Super de Luxe (my little toy)

I have for years had a Clarke Pro 90 Mig welder which I am very satisfied with.

Although only occasionally used, as a distinctly amateur welder I find it relatively easy to use once I have relearned the correct feed, gas, etc settings.
I found that buying good helmet, with self adjusting visor window, made a massive improvement in the quality and accuracy of my finished welds.
I also find the use of a floodlight to illuminate the work area makes it easier, but that may be only because of my failing eyesight.

I have used it for quite heavy work, as in making/repairing metal fencing, it seems to cope.

I was surprised that it was still available, as It must be well over 20 years that I bought mine.
https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/pro-90-mig-welder/ FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 79k+ miles) (MY2015)
Metro in its 11th Year of (Extended) LR Warranty / Full LR Service History
(Expensive, but Trouble/Worry free - hopefully?)

I'm fascinated - what is an "inverter" in relation to welders? I thought an inverter was something that turned 12v DC into 240v AC.

I still have the Clarke spot-welder that I bought 30+ years ago to replace the sills and wings on my mini - both are still going strong!

I was also intrigued, I found this explanation amongst others on the internet.

It seems to me that the inverter allows much more adjustment to the arc.
But, with my limited experience of welding, I would have ample opportunity of adjusting it wrong, as I did right.

If you know what you are doing, it seems that the Inverter Welder is better than the older Transformer Welder.



As an aside, to the general electronic world, inverter technology allowed power supplies to become much smaller and lighter (and efficient) than the older transformer type. My back saw the benefits when lifting them.
Also the inverter is used to drive the electric motors in most electric cars, using changes to frequency, phase, power, etc for the same reasons. FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 79k+ miles) (MY2015)
Metro in its 11th Year of (Extended) LR Warranty / Full LR Service History
(Expensive, but Trouble/Worry free - hopefully?)

OK mains in the UK is 240V, this is the effective voltage not the peak voltage - AC goes from 0V to peak voltage back down to 0V and on to a negative peak voltage in a sinusoidal wave form.
The peak voltage is actually 338V both positive and negative.
It completes the cycle 0V, +ve, 0V, -ve, 0V 50 times a second - OK 60 in the USA - 50Hz or 60Hz

So if you put it through a set of diodes you can produce 338V DC - this is typically stored in a set of capacitors, but you don't need to know this.
You have all heard of transistors, switches with no moving parts, these work by turning DC on and off.
You can arrange a set of transistors to switch on and off simulating an AC waveform, now the good news, you can do it as often as you like so 20Hz to 2,000Hz is easily possible, then again pure DC is also possible as is a combination of both.

Similarly you are no longer limited to mains voltage, depending on the switching you can vary the voltage.

Why wasn't this done decades ago when we were young?
Power transistors weren't available in the sizes required, computing power (takes a fair bit of very quick maths) wasn't available.

Don't get me wrong a transformer is simple and robust, will take years of abuse, and carry on regardless. Inverters are just far more flexible, efficient, 10 times lighter, and don't have the same fuse killing surge that transformers do.

This is from someone who spent a good few years welding cranes for a living 3mm-12mm plate 30 meters in the air, you appreciate a light welder that doesn't trip the circuit breakers that are at ground level. Tangiers Orange - gone, missing her
Replaced by Ewok what a mistake - now a happy Disco Sport owner

Andy

Is your description for a professional 3 phase welder?

The domestic welders like mine run on single phase 230v nom. as measured between one phase and neutral.

The 415v nom is the overall 3 phase voltage measured between any 2 phases.

Are inverter welders difficult to set up and adjust for non-professional occasional users like me? FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 79k+ miles) (MY2015)
Metro in its 11th Year of (Extended) LR Warranty / Full LR Service History
(Expensive, but Trouble/Worry free - hopefully?)

The voltage in the UK "was" historically 240V, Europe was 220V-230V, so there HAD to be harmonisation.
Now you can insist that countries individually spend an awful lot of money to get to a standard with no physical advantage, or you can set the standard so it fits what you have. The latter was chosen, the standard is currently 230V +10% -6%, so the UK can still generate at 240V and comply.
Similar things happened with the UK 415V and the EU 400V

A case of the EU members sitting down and working together to the benefit of all.

Some inverter welders are relatively simple and therefore the controls are no more difficult that the transformer equivalent, but still have many of the advantages inherent with inverter welders.
Some are very sophisticated, but you still tend to stick to a select few settings - in general you would probably only use it for two or three different applications eg 1) welding angle iron to build a trailer, 2) welding car bodywork, 3) welding box section to build a framework. Once you have these settings sussed write them down and forget the rest, reading the manual and playing with scrap is fun with a new toy and generally the best way to get good results. Tangiers Orange - gone, missing her
Replaced by Ewok what a mistake - now a happy Disco Sport owner

Bobupndown wrote:

Not looking to spend a huge amount, it will only be for occasional hobby use but if I was to tackle a car restoration it would be good to have a suitable welder available.

Couldn't agree more

Spend around £50 for a welding mask that is clear when not welding, but instantly darkens as the arc is struck.
This is much better than the old style fixed shade that needs to be flipped down as you strike up, the newer ones and can often be used when prepping (grinding) the weld.
Having forgotten to switch between grinding goggles and welding mask once too often - spending a night in A&E after the UV burned off the protective layer on my eyes - think hot sand in your eyes.
Decent gauntlets will save you a LOT of pain - having spent many hours welding with gas you learn to bend one end of the welding rod over, at this point you know which end is hot.

Gas welding needs little prep, as it will burn off the corroded metal and paint as it heats up, with practice you can almost weld tissue thin metal.
MMA - stick welding again needs little prep, paint will need to be removed, but light corrosion will disappear as the arc reaches it. very easy to blow through thin sheet steel.
MIG/TIG need a clean non-oxidised surface. Good on the thin stuff, and good enough for any thickness you are likely to meet on a domestic task.

Be careful it is very easy to set fire to oils, wires, soundproofing, overalls - maybe a "fire watcher" with a suitable extinguisher isn't a bad idea. Tangiers Orange - gone, missing her
Replaced by Ewok what a mistake - now a happy Disco Sport owner

Thanks Andy
From what you say, if I was starting out I would go for the 'Inverter Type' of welder similar to the one Bob had in his original post.
Too late for me now, but it looks a lot more versatile than my 'Transformer' Clarke 90.

Found this 'Buying a Welder' Forum
https://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/forums/buying-a-welder.19/ FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 79k+ miles) (MY2015)
Metro in its 11th Year of (Extended) LR Warranty / Full LR Service History
(Expensive, but Trouble/Worry free - hopefully?)

Andy131 wrote:

Be careful it is very easy to set fire to oils, wires, soundproofing, overalls - maybe a "fire watcher" with a suitable extinguisher isn't a bad idea.

And under seal and rustproofing!
And wire wool is extremely flammable! I was grinding some welds smooth many years ago and looked up to find the whole side of the garage alight! The sparks from the grinder had landed on a ball of wire wool on the shelf and set the lot alight!

I had one of these https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/135te-turbo-mig-welder/ when I had a rusty old Disco 300TDi.
I got it to replace one of these https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/pro-90-mig-welder/
Both were a lot more expensive now than they were 15 years ago.
My advice would be go for a mig welder, a proper one that uses CO2, not a gasless one.
And as others have said, be sure to remove flammable materials around the area. I was patching a seat belt mount on the rear wheel arch and managed to set some near by carpet alight. It didn't cause much damage, but the only extinguisher that I had to hand was a dry powder one. They are horrible, make a mess everywhere and are a pain to clean up after. Richard M