Vanny wrote:

@IanMetro

Have a look at the new UNECE legislation coming in, I think it's W29. All car software will be secure and critical communication encrypted. Cyber Secure!

Problem is, it's hugely complicated and components won't be interchangeable between cars. Second hand market will be heavily impacted as independent operators won't be able to do anything with faulty/broken modules. ABS light on because of a broken sensor, that will cost you £1000 at the main dealer. Cars will get scrapped for no good reason.

The legislation comes in within the next few years and it's going to cause chaos. Secure cars, that can't be repaired!

ive looked into leasing/PCP before instead of HP and for me it has always without fail worked out a lot more expensive to lease/pcp due to my annual mileage. That's without any maintenance packages etc.

so how is it going to fair if im made to pay hundreds more a month than I currently do ??

I understand it totally out of our control and we are left in the hands of the manufacturers and governments but its going to destroy people like me if we can only have mileage base lease deals, its effectively a legitimate form of blackmail

The only copy of the regs I have are old, draft and commercially paid for (so I can't share them, sorry). I work in the industry and preparing for this change is causing me all kinds of problems. I agree with the safety/security aspect, but the electronic waste and end user cost that will occur makes me very nervous.

Glad I've got a reliable Freelander and a car with no electronics (nearly)

I personally won't be buying any car from about 18my onwards, it will have to be rented so the dealer are slightly more inclined to sort it out themselves!

I just hope I don't start getting shipped around the world to fix cars that can't be diagnosed!

What happens to all those ex-rental cars after the dealers have finished with them - they will be fairly new (3 years old?) fairly low mileage (ever tried to get a PCP for 50k miles a year - I have).

Not many people with a high miler or over 3 years old ever sees a dealership again, unless it's to buy parts (tried to get to the parts department in the new LR dealerships - good luck if you are not trade), so reputable specialists will be put out of business, and will be down to some enterprising software guys to come up with a "fix" for the locked ECUs, that the less scrupulous garages can install.

Emissions defeat software anyone? Tangiers Orange - gone, missing her
Replaced by Ewok what a mistake - now a happy Disco Sport owner

To a manufacturer the control of the maintenance and spares of a product is priceless. It doesn't really matter whether the customer leases or buys the product, as long as there is a 'all in' plan to look after and update that product.

This business plan is not new, it was the norm when I entered the computer world in the 70s, and I believe it is the norm now for aircraft engines.

In a way it's not much of a step away from me buying an extended warranty each year.

Although that step may be the Manufacturer monitoring my (next?) car and remotely sending me to a Franchised Dealer to have a service or a fault fixed.

On the benefit side, it could lead to more accurate diagnosis of faults and a more prompt change/correction of parts. FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 77k+ miles) (MY2015)
Metro in its 11th Year of (Extended) LR Warranty / Full LR Service History
(Expensive, but Trouble/Worry free - hopefully?)

I've just read this article in the Autocar.

-Software 'putting driver's life at risk'-

This is about VW but will almost certainly apply to any car.

It's all well and fine to say that software faults will be corrected (patched) over the internet, but once may be enough if you fail to react to a stopped lorry. Also, will cars become 'unsupported' as they get older, just like computers and phones.

I am surprised that cars do not contain some kind of triple-redundancy in their control systems, and locked-off software systems that cannot be tampered with.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/consume...ivers-risk FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 77k+ miles) (MY2015)
Metro in its 11th Year of (Extended) LR Warranty / Full LR Service History
(Expensive, but Trouble/Worry free - hopefully?)

Locked off software assumes that you have got it right BEFORE you deliver it.

Software development 90% correct after 10% effort, the remaining 10% takes a lot of time and effort.
You can't finish the software until the mechanical and electrical systems are finalised, the mechanical and electrical systems always overrun leaving the project short of time and money - guess what takes the hit.

Don't just blame the mechanical and electrical guys, if the scope isn't set in concrete they haven't a hope in hell, and the scope always moves due to customer focus groups / competitors advances / sales department dreams / accountants meddling / parts shortages / etc.

Been there got the tee shirt.

I design and program industrial automation for a living.

Want unfinished software? how many times does Windows update every month, each time it's an admission that the software was insufficiently tested and rushed to market. Tangiers Orange - gone, missing her
Replaced by Ewok what a mistake - now a happy Disco Sport owner

Andy, I agree with most of what you say.

I meant that the software is secured against unauthorised intrusion, or change.

I understand the problems of continual tracking and recording of software patches, and hardware/software compatibility.

I worked out in the field for a major computer firm and started applying patches via (hand punched) cards in the 1970s.

Later I desperately tried to keep on top of changes on big computer projects as a project manager.

It is because of the damage unauthorised changes can do, I am passionate about pointing out that surrendering ourselves to automated driving, without strict control, will be disastrous. FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 77k+ miles) (MY2015)
Metro in its 11th Year of (Extended) LR Warranty / Full LR Service History
(Expensive, but Trouble/Worry free - hopefully?)

On the last MOT in May they put a dongle on the OBD

I think that would have been for their emissions tester to tell the machine engine temperature etc. A mate of mine who works in a garage that do MOT's has a similar machine. 2007 TD4 XS The work horse that earns its up keep
2013 SD4 HSE The posh one for towing the caravan
1973 Triumph Stag I bought in 2009 and restored.