Mmmm

Over a certain age you don't need an MOT, trust me if your MOT has expired on a newer vehicle you cannot tax it.
We had this problem during shutdown, MOT expired and did not qualify for the Covid MOT extension, so could not tax the car, and all local MOT testing stations were closed to non-essential workers. Some non-essential workers had to go into work, or not get paid, simple economics.

Insurance, true the car doesn't need an MOT - as older cars are exempt, but the car must be in a roadworthy condition, and the MOT is proof that it was for one day a year at least. Tangiers Orange - gone, missing her
Replaced by Ewok what a mistake - now a happy Disco Sport owner

Andy131 wrote:

How about this one - and it's just me rambling.

You have an accident, your insurer contacts the manufacturer and asks have all the software patches been applied to your car. Your car was last serviced by an independent who hasn't the recourses to download software patches, so in the manufacturers eyes you have missed "critical" software. No-one at this point has interrogated your car, they don't have to as the manufacturer is the only approved source of software for your vehicle.

Insurer says sorry your not insured as your car was being used in an unsafe state, you get a bill for your car, and the other vehicle and you are looking at 10 points for no insurance.

It's up to you to prove what software is missing, and if it is critical to the accident, oh and the only source of that information is the dealer who you chose not to use.

Worse they install updates and don't ask for permission.

They even go so far as to say that they haven't, right up to the point where you point out that it did X when you brought it in for service and now it does Y, if not the software they must have broken it, so fix it.
Just thinking of the first adblue update on the first DS, loads of problems until they applied a patch to fix the first patch. Tangiers Orange - gone, missing her
Replaced by Ewok what a mistake - now a happy Disco Sport owner

RogB wrote:

there is a garage near me that advertises regularly that they do DPF/EGR deletes which also makes a vehicle unsafe in the eyes of the DVSA but so long as it passes emissions tests on MOT then its all good.

If DVSA find out they are doing emissions defeats, then they will likely loose their MOT licence...

How DVSA would find out, I wouldn't know. Anonymous phone call, perhaps?

We were warned of the possible sanctions of mot stations offering DPF removal/deletion years ago.

"Where a VTS is offering a service which could undermine this (such as removing or bypassing DPFs) DVSA will consider this as bringing the MOT Scheme into disrepute. Where the scheme is brought into disrepute DVSA may consider taking action to remove the Authorisation if appropriate".

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/g...e-7-14.pdf Past: FL2 TD4 HSE Auto
Evoque SD4 Dynamic Lux Auto
Present: Audi A3 S Line.

Should a garage advertise DPF deletes and removals one assumes that they remove and alter the software so as to show no fault codes regarding emmissions, however these garages/workshops are unlikely to be MOT testers and perhaps a litttle person is watching and taking registration numbers of customers cars  my PC is slightly to the right of Genghis
2012 HSE SD4 In Orkney Grey now gone, best car ever.

This guy doesn't remove the DPF as far as I know, but uses the software to delete the DPF and EGR and he isn't an MOT tester
he puts up pics on his facebook business page but usual hangs his own business number plate to hide the actual registration

ive had remaps done by him before but I would never go the whole hog with deleting emissions software etc. its just not worth the risk IMO

If he doesn't remove the DPF but defeats the software what stops the DPF blocking up without a regen, he must do something mechanical similar to making it a straight through pipe my PC is slightly to the right of Genghis
2012 HSE SD4 In Orkney Grey now gone, best car ever.

The posts on this thread imply that some people are quite happy to make changes to their vehicles architecture.

That begs a question -

When selling or changing a vehicle, should you have to make a declaration stating that it is as manufactured, has been serviced according to the manufacturer's instructions, and has been fitted with parts to the manufacturer's specification.

If not, should that vehicle then have to pass an enhanced MOT/Specification Check, before it is allowed back on the road.

(Hint think about travelling at 70mph down the motorway with your family aboard before answering)

Any change can have unexpected consequences, hardware or software. FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 79k+ miles) (MY2015)
Metro in its 11th Year of (Extended) LR Warranty / Full LR Service History
(Expensive, but Trouble/Worry free - hopefully?)

Steve D wrote:

To answer a few questions asked already, I think that safety critical software updates will be carried out free of charge as a recall by the manufacturer, possibly compulsory by law.
Under trays: We are not allowed to remove anything on an mot test as there will be too much liability on the garage/DVSA if anything is damaged.
As for disconnecting warning lamps, that wont work as part of the inspection entails ensuring that the light comes on, then goes off when it should.
*An engine management light staying on is not an automatic failure on petrol engine cars registered before July 2003 and diesel engined cars registered before July 2008.
Oh, and it’s getting stricter - brake, headlamp and emission testing machines will soon have to be 'connected'. They are looking at OBD hook up as well as number plate recognition in testing bays. This should completely cut out those stations that issue test certificates without even seeing the car. More here: https://mattersoftesting.blog.gov.uk/what-...s-for-you/

.......complete with three gears and vacuum wipers!

Bob 10MY (Sept 09) TD4 HSE Auto in Stornoway Grey (Now Gone)

08 FL2 TD4 SE Manual in Rimini Red (Now Gone)

Look guys I write controls software for a living, OK not perfect every time, but certainly after a couple of tweaks, it is settled, and unless the process changes it stays that way for 20 years plus.

What they are now "selling" is that the software is so poor (unfinished) that they will need to keep updating it until no-one notices how poor it is or until customers just accept its idiosyncrasies.

Unless of course they are deciding that everything over a certain age "needs replacing" and they actually download a version of the software that makes the machine useless, with the answer when you ring of "it's no longer supported"

yes I can see that the entertainment software on a modern car might need an update to enable it to continue to work with the latest firmware upgrade on your iPhone (other pieces of junk are also available), but engine management or emissions control?? Tangiers Orange - gone, missing her
Replaced by Ewok what a mistake - now a happy Disco Sport owner

Even the new defender has software updates over the air. In a lot of ways that's a good thing but im guessing you need to have a working mobile connection via the onboard sim card, but if our coverage is patchy even over here in gloriously advanced UK whats it going to be like if you are one of the few who venture into the back-o-beyond and don't have a signal ??

You can have the most technologically advanced piece of hardware going but if the support infrastructure is poor or non existent then all you have is a lump of composite materials.

@IanMetro

Have a look at the new UNECE legislation coming in, I think it's W29. All car software will be secure and critical communication encrypted. Cyber Secure!

Problem is, it's hugely complicated and components won't be interchangeable between cars. Second hand market will be heavily impacted as independent operators won't be able to do anything with faulty/broken modules. ABS light on because of a broken sensor, that will cost you £1000 at the main dealer. Cars will get scrapped for no good reason.

The legislation comes in within the next few years and it's going to cause chaos. Secure cars, that can't be repaired!

dunkley201 wrote:

.......complete with three gears and vacuum wipers!

Bob

Bob
At least I understood that although the wipers (inlet manifold vacuum driven) stopped if you maintained anything over 50 mph, if you thought you saw anything through the rain drops on the windscreen, a momentary release of the accelerator pedal would enable to see what it was. That is if the dynamo driven lights were bright enough to see through the gloom.

I never had a software glitch on my 100E Popular.
 FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 79k+ miles) (MY2015)
Metro in its 11th Year of (Extended) LR Warranty / Full LR Service History
(Expensive, but Trouble/Worry free - hopefully?)