Hi everyone,

We’re both serial commuters and do big mileages split across our FL2 (my car) and Jaguar XK8 (The Missus’s car)

We’ve had our 2009 Freelander 2 HSE for six years which we bought with 22,000 miles on it and we have whacked 155000 miles on it since. We’re both huge fans of LR, and especially Freelander.. we had a Freelander 1 TD4 SE before this one which did similar mileage, almost completely trouble free, and replaced that with this FL2 which was - and still is - an excellent all-rounder.

Under our ownership it’s had a head on at low speed in the snow, and a higher speed rear end shunt (neither our fault, I am glad to say), and been strong and utterly reliable.The seats are still loooking good, all the toys still work and when valeted, it comes up immaculate in spite of the big mileage.

We decided though, that coming up to 175000 miles and one or two issues possibly getting costly ... cam belt due again, new alternator and air con compressor due, etc...so it was time to upgrade again, and decided to go take a look once we’d done the grocery shopping. It read our minds!

We did the shopping and then, cursing as I’d just been to the shop and was going back again as I’d forgotten the milk, I got three hundred yards up the road and the engine conked... unfortunately a valve had somehow dropped into the piston and the engine was in effect destroyed.

“No worries,” said the garage - “we’ve never seen this happen before on these engines, but it’s basically just a Ford Transit engine so we’ll easily get that replaced if you like... But you should just replace the car and scrap this one...”

So, we went to the dealers to source a low mileage 2-3 year old replacement as we usually do, but of course FL2 is now Discovery Sport... NOT impressed. It’s small and cramped inside when compared to inside the FL2, and a newer FL2 than ours isn’t so very different and still pricey enough to upgrade to, and having looked at the new alternative I can see why the FL2’s are holding their value!!!

So that was an easy decision... replace the engine... it’s about half the price of replacing the car anyway, so while a gamble, I think it’s a small one, so I’m in the FL2 for another five years at least... no complaints!

I do have a few minor niggles I could do with sorting and I’ll post on those separately, but just wanted introduce myself as a massive FL2 fan! Lexus RX450H - 500 mile a week commuter- I just couldn’t trust in a newer RRS or DS for that….
2009 Freelander 2 HSE... 155K miles, we’ve done 135k of those, has done brilliantly on the commute and staying firmly put as car two in the household
2002 Jaguar XK8 Coupe... fun, fast, ours for 12 years and owes us nothing - so staying with us too…

Welcome!

Lots of like-minded people on here......I wouldn't be without mine, that's for sure.

My brother has a DS and whilst a comfortable long-distance motorway cruiser, he has had problem after problem with it, mainly software related, but from what I have read and heard about, they have a serious design fault with the exhaust system and the Ingenium engine appears to have balance shaft bearing problems to boot.

Nothing from the current Land Rover stable would tempt me away from my Freelander, particularly with the prices that they are now charging for them. The L359 has been nothing but utterly reliable all the years that I've owned it, and like you, I hope to own it for many more to come.

To be fair, the FL2 did have lots of Software problems at its launch, which were later resolved in production. It was always said 'launched TOO early"

I spent my career designing hardware and writing software. It was always difficult to stop writing and improving the product, as software is an on-going development that doesn't affect the hardware build.

For 8yrs I help run the Freelander Club, from FL1 through to FL2. Been a LR enthusiast for over 30yrs.

.

An interesting story but don't be seduced into thinking that replacing the engine (and not with a new one I guess) will make the car go for another 177000 miles trouble free as there are lots of other things to wear out. Basically you should replace a car when the annual depreciation is about the same as the annual maintenance costs. However I agree about what to replace it with. I was in the LR dealers yesterday and can't see myself laying out this sort of money for a DS and with the Ingenium oil dilution and balance shaft issues I will only buy petrol from now on which is another £3k. So for now I am just filling in the paperwork for an extended warranty on my FL2.



 3 x FL1 2 manual + 1 auto
5 x FL2 4 manual + 1 auto
Now Discovery Sport P250 MHEV SE

And two years down the line after you have parted with £41,291 the same dealer will offer you somewhere around £25,000 part exchange

dorsetfreelander wrote:

Basically you should replace a car when the annual depreciation is about the same as the annual maintenance costs...

Don't forget that depreciation will level out asymptotically to zero eventually and at a level just above the scrap value whereas maintenance costs will always increase exponentially with time. 3 x FL1 2 manual + 1 auto
5 x FL2 4 manual + 1 auto
Now Discovery Sport P250 MHEV SE

Absolutely, but we’ve just been through this on a 16 year old Golf Tdi. At that age, it is clearly not depreciating. It has needed no repairs over the last year until it recently needed a new radiator hose. Servicing costs are lower than on any modern replacement and running costs are broadly comparable. So, is it worth replacing a hose on a 16 year-old car? Using your approach, the answer would be no, since maintenance is greater than depreciation. But, at least in the short-term, the question for me was “Do I spend c£100 on a repair or c£10,000 on replacing the car”? “Utility” is the over-riding element, though, as there is a value to us in having an old, compact, robust, manual car for my son to learn to drive in. “Utility” also comes into it for those above, valuing aspects of the FL2 over a shiny new DS. 2005 D3 2.7 Auto
Previously:
2010 MY FL2 TD4e GS - Now gone at 199,500 miles, about 135,000 of them mine.
‘93 Defender 110 200TDi CSW
‘87 Defender 90 4 cyl Petrol
‘83 110 CSW V8 - best ever!
Range Rover 2-door V8 (not sure of year - 4-speed box and vacuum diff switch)
Series III SWB Diesel

I’ve got Reo Speedwagon on the stereo here Follow My Heart is playing the chorus goes should I follow my head or follow my heart,I think the OP knows which one,good luck and thanks for joining in the forum,it’s a pretty good place this is

Worms wrote:

Absolutely, but we’ve just been through this on a 16 year old Golf Tdi. At that age, it is clearly not depreciating. It has needed no repairs over the last year until it recently needed a new radiator hose. Servicing costs are lower than on any modern replacement and running costs are broadly comparable. So, is it worth replacing a hose on a 16 year-old car? Using your approach, the answer would be no, since maintenance is greater than depreciation. But, at least in the short-term, the question for me was “Do I spend c£100 on a repair or c£10,000 on replacing the car”? “Utility” is the over-riding element, though, as there is a value to us in having an old, compact, robust, manual car for my son to learn to drive in. “Utility” also comes into it for those above, valuing aspects of the FL2 over a shiny new DS.

Deafender wrote:

Hi everyone,
We’ve had our 2009 Freelander 2 HSE for six years which we bought with 22,000 miles on it and we have whacked 155000 miles on it since. We’re both huge fans of LR, and especially Freelander!

With that kind of background I can't help but wonder why it's only now that you've joined the forum.
You could've been a "forum stalwart" by now with your love of the FL2.

Anyway, enjoy the forum and I hope you get your engine issue sorted, we're always here to comment/advise/laugh (& even ridicule from the odd member).
 FL2 now gone and have a couple of items left for sale:-

Brodit active iPhone holder + Brodit dash clip,
Bluetooth Music Streaming Module.

Ridicule ?

" ........ You could've been a "forum stalwart" by now ......... "


Is that an 'Ed'die Stalwart ????????

Hi to everyone who's replied... nice welcome and thanks!

To ronp, your comment about why not being on the forum before is well made... The FL2 has literally not missed a beat for us in the time we've had it... the only irritant was a faulty boot release that kept opening when it felt like it, usually at cruising speed in lane three of the M6, which turned out to be a short caused by water ingress which I fixed myself... so I had no need to look around for help.

By contrast, my Missus's XK8 (2002 facelift, 96K miles, 22k miles last 12 months) had me on one of the two equivalent forums within a week of taking ownership and frequently posting... just one case, for four months last year we were putting up with the orange engine management light refusing to go out even after she took it in to two independent Jaguar Specialists to fix. They both said the computer was saying it must be "Lamda sensors' which are exhaust and other stuff off to change - so don't bother, too expensive, and she didn't dare tell me as she knew I was fed up of it.

Then one warm, sunny November day (yes, really) it went into limp home mode around Milton Keynes area, and its driver (me) blew his own gasket in frustration and limped into the Jaguar main dealer, something I have steadfastly refused to do for years.

They came out with a classic suggestion. "Go and see this independent Jaguar specialist a mile or so away, he'll sort it out" - I never even knew they existed, so in desperation I did. They gave me a loan car and told me to wait about five days and they'd give the prognosis.

Next day they called and came out with another classic... "who the hell told you what was wrong with this?? They're all [rude word used here]'s, it's nothing to do with lamda sensors, it's actually the knocking sensor, mounted on top of the engine, and it's £95.00 + VAT to replace, plus £50 labour.

Delighted, I got the car back and about 5,000 miles on it's been faultless... thank goodness!!

Anyway the moral of this is that I got chatting to the chap at the Jaguar specialist and blow me down - he is an Adminstrator on the XK8 owners forum I hadn't signed up to, AND... his Missus has a 2011 FL2, just like mine, and he's happy doing stuff on my FL2 that I wouldn't know myself!!

So there you go. I unashamedly admit to using forums to help work out best fixes on issues. Now my FL2 is on extended life I expect some troubles moving ahead, so I am getting in touch with a group that knows its stuff before I have another experience like we had with that XK8... which when working properly is a stunning car to look at and drive... even if tyres are literally twice the cost per corner than the FL2 and only last half the mileage, it does 24MPG at best vs 33MPG on the FL2, I crack my head every time I get in the XK8 ... Lexus RX450H - 500 mile a week commuter- I just couldn’t trust in a newer RRS or DS for that….
2009 Freelander 2 HSE... 155K miles, we’ve done 135k of those, has done brilliantly on the commute and staying firmly put as car two in the household
2002 Jaguar XK8 Coupe... fun, fast, ours for 12 years and owes us nothing - so staying with us too…

Quote:

When depreciation reaches zero then the true comparison is between it's current (scrap?) value versus the cost of repair.

Quite agree, I went through the same thought process myself... our circumstances are all different so we'll all have varied considerations on these...

I got the chap sorting out the exchange engine (correct, not a brand new engine) to replace the cambelt, LPT, air con compressor, water pump, steering pump, diesel injectors and other bits I can't even recall now, much cheaper in labour costs to do all at once with the engine on the bench, rather than individually afterwards with the engine in the car - bills for all those bits were in the post, so to speak, for sure.... In addition, it had just got five new Continental tyres two weeks before and a new windscreen two DAYS before the engine disintegration...

... Add to that the new rear end (Bumpers, tailgate, exhaust ..) plus the front bumper, grill and radiator from it's two prangs in the previous three years, and this one is a bit like the proverbial "trigger's broom - it's had four new heads and five new handles, but is still the same broom."

With a dead engine it was certainly worth a few quid as spares, but the £4,500 bill all in for all this isn't so drastic when it's all weighed up, particularly when compared to the upgrade to a Disco Sport (DS) I'd considered, which I reckon would have cost me at least double... and as has been seen, that DS isn't without it's issues with only a third of the mileage on it than my FL2 has... and no warranty at that age either...

Ultimately, I don't know what else I'd want to own at present, which also made the decision easy. I must try and hook up with someone and try out the big-engined petrol version of the FL2, I'd bet that is a joy to drive too... I might be persuaded to upgrade on one of those later on!!  Lexus RX450H - 500 mile a week commuter- I just couldn’t trust in a newer RRS or DS for that….
2009 Freelander 2 HSE... 155K miles, we’ve done 135k of those, has done brilliantly on the commute and staying firmly put as car two in the household
2002 Jaguar XK8 Coupe... fun, fast, ours for 12 years and owes us nothing - so staying with us too…