The Auto Express Driver Power 2017 Survey makes dismal reading for Land Rover and Jag fans! I don't care much about the purely subjective scores but those for reliability and build quality cannot be ignored. Some of the most unreliable cars in the survey (those less than 12 months old) are Land Rovers and Jags - over 25% of Disco Sport owners report problems, the Evoque is almost as bad and the Jags are the worst in the entire survey! Other brands with very poor historic reliability and quality reputations have improved enormously over the years (eg Renault, Peugeot) - sadly there is no evidence at all that JLR have any grip on this. Kia, Hyundai, even Volvo and Ford are getting great scores for reliability and quality.
Leaving aside those two key areas, it also noticeable that there are no JLR products leading the market sectors in which they compete, and there is not a single JLR vehicle scoring in the top 10 across the nine key areas that AE surveyed apart from a 4th place for the Jag XE in the handling category.
I think the obsessions of JLR top management are to blame. The "Premium brand" blather is total poops, the SVO and Special Projects distractions indicate that there is more than a screw loose in the corporate brain box. Trying to put Independent Specialists out of business is frankly bizarre. The headlong pursuit of volume over quality will surely destroy brand loyalty and no amount of posh coffee in sumptuous showrooms will compensate while owners are waiting for their defective vehicles to be fixed.
Corporate rot is a top down process and all is clearly not smelling too fresh at HQ. I think Tata need to get a grip.

I have to say that I don't pay too much attention to these surreys as more often than not the people who tend to respond most are those that have something to complain about. If JLR products were as bad as they say they are, there is no way the brand would have become the largest car producer in the UK. You only have to read the comments on this or any other forum, people come here not to praise their vehicle but to complain that something isn't working, normally it's nothing catastrophic and can be easily fixed, some users accept it as part and parcel of car ownership and others rant on about how bad the car is and they would never buy another. If you read the forums of any other manufacturer you'll find the same thing. Biggest issue is that people want the latest model and expect perfection, sadly that's not the case, it's impossible for any manufacturer to fully test every possible event prior to launching a new model and owners tend to find things that didn't show up during the testing phase. For every car that causes issues there will be a number that never have any issues, there are a huge number of suppliers for every vehicle, JLR in theory don't make anything, they pretty much just bolt together a load of parts supplied by other manufacturers. In my time I've had brand new cars that have worked with no issues and brand new cars that have had issues from day one (all company owned) cars I buy tend to be 2nd or 3rd owner and have also either been a joy with no issues or a pain with one item after another failing. It's the joy as they say of motoring

Absolutely,

I agree that some owners only join forums to complain. This does not however account for why Land Rover and Jag owners are reporting far more faults than other competing brands in unbiased owner surveys. The recognised posh brands like BMW, Audi and Merc are all doing better and even the perceived lower quality brands are producing cars which on the available empirical evidence are better made and more reliable. The JLR ethos is not about quality and reliability and these results, sadly, speak for themselves.

Never bother with Driver power survey it's a lot of b ks, I'm on my 9th LR, trust my own experience over a disgruntled owners. I've had one major fault and 3 trips for minor things.

Sad thing is if you want better quality and reliability then build them outside the UK.

Our buses at work are built by Alexander Dennis and the build quality is poor when comparing it to the Irish built WrightBus

Our coaches built by Plaxton are woeful compared to the Belgian built Vanhool. 21MY Defender 90 S 3.0 D200

Country of origin is not necessarily a good predicator or reliability in my experience. Since I bought my Freely2 we have also bought four new British built Hondas and all have been 100% reliable and have all worked perfectly over hundreds of thousands of miles......
Wright Bus of Ballymena are incidentally most certainly British and proud of it!

j77 wrote:

Sad thing is if you want better quality and reliability then build them outside the UK.

What's my nationality got to do with it?

As I clearly stated I'm on my 9th LR if I wasn't happy I wouldn't buy them. I also commented on ADL bus which is bodied in Falkirk and chassis built in England.

Yes Wright bus are in Britain technically, but most of there products are built on the Volvo chassis or use the German built Daimler engine.

Honda/Nissan probably the only exception.

The Vauxhall Astra, questionable 21MY Defender 90 S 3.0 D200

Even having had my own LR in the dealer's workshop for the last 3 weeks, I still feel the overall quality of LR's is very good and would buy again. It's only their current design direction (with just the one honourable exception and one possible exception) that would put me off.

I do twitch when all UK built products are dismissed though. For instance, I've only had to buy three Hinckley built Triumphs over the last 22 years (a Sprint 900, a Daytona 1200 and an Explorer) and all have been much, much better made and certainly more robust than anything that I'd bought from Honda, Yamaha or Suzuki before that! My original FL2 is also going well, despite having been driven >150,000 miles now.

The build quality of the current generation of JLR vehicles is a big step up however their latest infotainment system Incontrol Pro is pretty poor very buggy. I just hope they get it sorted for the Velar, especially given it's price tag. So far my D5 has proved faultless and long may it continue but there are a few rough ones been handed back to dealers. Buyer beware. 21MY Defender 90 S 3.0 D200

Lord Sward wrote:

j77 wrote:

Sad thing is if you want better quality and reliability then build them outside the UK.

Typical chip-on-shoulder Scot?

Lord Sward wrote:

j77 wrote:

Sad thing is if you want better quality and reliability then build them outside the UK.

Typical chip-on-shoulder Scot?

Couldn't agree more
We are all entitled to an opinion - even if everyone else's is pure rubbish.

Look is it down to poor design - doesn't matter how well you screw crap together it will always be crap?
Is it down to poor QA - doesn't matter how well it's designed, it the parts from suppliers are shoddily built and not as ordered.
is it down to poor training - if you don't understand how the bit you are building/fitting interacts with the other bits, then you can actually hammer a square peg into a round hole - with a bit of effort.
Is it down to poor management - if you don't understand the product, the required standard, have the right tools (QA), or are employed because you went to the same school/club as someone higher up.
Or lets blame the last person to touch the car - the ones who screwed together the square peg / round hole made of putty from the cheapest supplier, who was poorly trained managed by a muppet who doesn't give a damn so long as he/she doesn't get the blame.

Me I blame the customer - keep buying crap and the manufacturer will keep producing crap, stop buying crap and the manufacturer either builds what is wanted, or goes bust. Doesn't apply if the manufacturer is nationalised Tangiers Orange - gone, missing her
Replaced by Ewok what a mistake - now a happy Disco Sport owner

I perhaps have been lucky, only my D3 gave me real cause for concern, it needed a new engine at 2 year old and 17k on the clock.

My D5 in areas is questionable in a car with such a price tag but overall I'm happy enough with it. I thought LR had cracked it with the Fl2, it felt solid and very few if any rattles over the 3 I owned. It seems now LR are going light weight they are going back to there old days off misaligned headlights and tailgates, a bit of a backwards step, noticed this when going from Fl2 to Evoque, it felt more flimsy whereas the Fl2 felt more tank like.

LR have this surreal ability to attract buyers, we all know about their customer service and reliability record but their products still fly out the showrooms. 21MY Defender 90 S 3.0 D200