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shilen

Member Since: 29 Feb 2008
Location: In the Middle
Posts: 1774

2011 Freelander 2 SD4 HSE Auto Bali Blue

Spatch wrote:
Mav71 wrote:

I test drove the X3 (good car, but crap SUV), Audi Q5 (lets not go there), Mercedes GLC, exquisit interior and quick in 250d guise, but boring looks and a noisy diesel, also test drove the 400bhp GLC43 AMG, and that was epic!

The new VW Tiguan is also a good car, but just felt boring to drive.

Would be interested to hear why you thought the X3 was a crap SUV?

Probably just a dislike to something better.......

Now - 2017 BMW X3 M Sport Carbon Black
Gone - 2014 BMW X3 M Sport Space Grey, faultless!
Gone - 2011 Freelander 2 SD4 HSE Bali Blue with xenons
Gone - 2008 Freelander 2 TD4 HSE Rimini Red with bodykit

12th Jan 2017 11:14 am

Mav71

Member Since: 15 Nov 2008
Location: Leicester
Posts: 2575

2007 Freelander 2 TD4 HSE Manual Stornoway Grey

lol, THE BMW X3 drives well, I can't argue that point and they are well build from an interior point of view.

But thats about it. I had one on demo for a day before Christmas (M Sport 2.0 D X-Drive) and the suspension is rock hard, the steering over sensitive, and if your on any form of slippery surface you don't go anywhere.

The demo I tried, had the tow bar fitted, so I took the van out to see what it was like. Very skittish was a word I would use, for ever going up and down the gears. when towing the suspension would crash over any uneven surface. Also without towing.

BMW have tried too hard to make the X range of cars, handle like, well cars. To me thats not the point of an SUV.

Built well, but disappointing and had absolutely no soul. I got bored of it after three hours.

I also can't forgive BMW for owning Land Rover, and not taking any of the knowledge to make their own 4 wheel drive cars. Its almost like an arrogance of saying, yes you make 4x4's Land Rover, but we can make them better. They can't. Freelander 2 HSE Lux 2013MY - Barolo Black with Ivory Leather. Alpine DVD - Privacy -Evoque 20" Dynamic Wheels and more to come.........

19th Jan 2017 5:26 pm

Dartman the one

Member Since: 04 Apr 2013
Location: Seville, Spain
Posts: 1687

I think BMW thought they had got the information to make a decent 4x4, it would seem the Brum software engineers conned them my PC is slightly to the right of Genghis
2012 HSE SD4 In Orkney Grey now gone, best car ever.

19th Jan 2017 6:08 pm

Spatch

Member Since: 20 Feb 2015
Location: Kent
Posts: 170

Mav71 wrote:
lol, THE BMW X3 drives well, I can't argue that point and they are well build from an interior point of view.

But thats about it. I had one on demo for a day before Christmas (M Sport 2.0 D X-Drive) and the suspension is rock hard, the steering over sensitive, and if your on any form of slippery surface you don't go anywhere.

The demo I tried, had the tow bar fitted, so I took the van out to see what it was like. Very skittish was a word I would use, for ever going up and down the gears. when towing the suspension would crash over any uneven surface. Also without towing.

BMW have tried too hard to make the X range of cars, handle like, well cars. To me thats not the point of an SUV.

Built well, but disappointing and had absolutely no soul. I got bored of it after three hours.

I also can't forgive BMW for owning Land Rover, and not taking any of the knowledge to make their own 4 wheel drive cars. Its almost like an arrogance of saying, yes you make 4x4's Land Rover, but we can make them better. They can't.

Its great that people can drive exactly the same cars and come to such different opinions. The beauty of us all being individuals with different priorities and perceptions.

I have driven the DS auto numerous times, owned both manual and auto Freelanders and driven fully loaded D4 and Evoke autos. This is all before I test drove the X3. Admittedly, my X3 is the 3.0l Diesel 6 cylinder, so I am unable to offer my response from a 2.0l point of view (as you drove).

I would agree with you on one point, the suspension is harder on the M-Sport X3 than either the Freelander or DS. Mine has runflats as well which tramline quite readily which can take you by surprise (perhaps the skittishness you experienced?). However, with what you loose in suspension softness, you gain in handling. I do not know what percentage yours spends on/off road, but for me, mine only goes off road when going on a lambing weekend or at a camp site towing a caravan, so significantly less than 1% of my driving. For me 'on road' manners are more important, so the slightly harder ride is preferable. It is certainly no sports car though! Also, don't forget that you had the M-Sport, this has harder suspension. You could always go for an SE version which has softer suspension or go for a model with variable dampers. The M-Sport will always be harder than the Freelander or DS.

You say the steering is over sensitive, well that surely depends on where you are coming from. Again, the steering is aimed more at on road, so is more responsive. When I have gone back to a Freelander, I have found the steering slow and unengaging. Its perception and what you personally want from a vehicle.

I would disagree with you about slippery surfaces and not going anywhere in an X3. There are numerous posts on the web showing the X3 doing very respectably in slippery conditions. Yes, it is not a Defender but I am not so sure it would disgrace itself alongside a Freelander. I know it would probably not have the axle articulation of the Freelander, and X3's often wear much wider and lower profile rubber, but on an even slippery surface with comparable rubber, I think it would cope.

I would also have to strongly disagree about the towing and the gearbox. As said, I know mine is the 3.0l but mine tows fantastically. The Freelander was very good but the X3 improves on it due to the extra power. Other than that, I have found them both as stable as each other, i.e excellent tow vehicles. Also, the 8-speed gearbox on the X3 is very well respected. I, generally, do not like autos, but have been pressed into it due to issues with DMF on both the manual Freelander and previous cars when towing. I found the 6-speed in the Freelander and the 9-speed in the DS to be slow, jerky and never in the right gear, in fact, the auto gearbox was one of the reasons I moved to the X3. The 8-speed in the X3 is a delight, smooth, fast and always in the right gear. OK, its not a manual but it's bloody good. I have never had it "forever going up and down gears", it picks a gear and stays in it. I have never had it changing all over the place.

Has it got a soul? Yes, but it is muted I suppose. I like the understated dash for example, simple but efficient. Nothing fancy, just functional. For me, that is all I want, others may look at it differently. Its efficient, functional and it works well, and if that is seen as being dull..... For mine, with the 3.0l diesel, the engine is a peach and has plenty of soul. It is incredibly powerful and torquey yet returns significantly better fuel economy then the 2.2 Freelander (not sure about the Ingenium engine in the DS but that is still only 2.0l).

You say, to you, "its not the point of an SUV", for me, it meets my requirements exactly - a 4 wheel drive which is an efficient and well behaved road car, reliable, well built and will hold its value, and which is capable enough off road.

Before I test drove the X3, I would never have seen myself as driving a BMW. As for anyone else who is looking for a change, the X3 may not be for you but go into it with an open mind (not saying you didn't Mav71), you may be surprised, like I was.

Cheers,
Mark BMW X3 30d M Sport - Current (problem free)
2014 SD4 Auto HSE Lux - Gone (too many problems)
2012 TD4 Manual XS - Gone (too many problems)

23rd Jan 2017 6:49 pm

shilen

Member Since: 29 Feb 2008
Location: In the Middle
Posts: 1774

I have to agree with Spatch's comments, everyone is entitled to their opinion but was surprised by your comments. I have never driven or would want to drive a DS I think the back end is awful and the interior design poor (my opinion ) so my only comparison is with the Freelander 2 which I have owned two.

"the suspension is rock hard"
I would agree that the suspension is firmer than the FL2 but the X3 you tested was on sports suspension so would naturally be a firmer ride in the interest of sportiness. Sport suspension can be deleted as a no cost option or for ultimate comfort adaptive dampers can be added. In 45000 miles I have never found the suspension to be 'rock hard'

"the steering over sensitive"
I have found the steering to be perfect on my X3, turn the wheel and the car turns with precision, never suffered with under steer or over steer - perfect!

"and if your on any form of slippery surface you don't go anywhere"
Absolute s t! I have travelled on ice, snow, wet roads and have never lost grip. Granted it wont go off the beaten track but as Spatch said - how many SUV drivers actually do?

With regards towing, watch this youtube video

I will say one thing that the X3 suffers from and that is slightly dated looks, but it has been around for 6 years now and all the competition such as the DS, F-Pace, GLC etc have only been around for a year or so therefore naturally the X3 will look dated. The interior design is understated but functional and well put together, lots of soft touch plastics and a definite premium feel. I cannot stand the number of manufacturers gluing an ipad screen to the top of the dash looks terrible.

Each to his own and perhaps I may be biased towards the X3 seeing as though I own one but I have been so impressed with this one over 3 years and 45,000 miles I have ordered another - it's actually just arrived in the country and due to me early March when the new 17 plate comes out. Now - 2017 BMW X3 M Sport Carbon Black
Gone - 2014 BMW X3 M Sport Space Grey, faultless!
Gone - 2011 Freelander 2 SD4 HSE Bali Blue with xenons
Gone - 2008 Freelander 2 TD4 HSE Rimini Red with bodykit

26th Jan 2017 11:06 am

mudslinger

Member Since: 10 Jun 2010
Location: Deep in a cave in the hills
Posts: 1035

2014 Freelander 2 SD4 HSE Lux Auto Sumatra Black

You can always go to "ABLEWORLD" and buy a cushion and you get the 1" back .... Wales
Were the mud is thicker, and the ruts are deeper.
(And we have the water to wash it off, and more on the way..! )
Sd4 and chrome Ar*e piece, Auto box for best fun
09 Xs Gone
12 xs Gone
HSE with Leather seats and 4 years warrenty.. staying for now !

26th Jan 2017 4:32 pm

chicken george

Member Since: 05 Dec 2007
Location: N. Yorks
Posts: 13289

2008 Freelander 2 TD4 XS Manual Santorini Black

Lack of traction would have more to do with tyres width etc than what car, X£ and discovery sport will differ little in that point.

X3 is possibly a very good car, but really I dont care, horses for courses good will to all men etc etc.

its hard earned cash that buys the car you have to be happy with what you lay your money down for, unless its aompany car I guess in that case just get the one with the least tax, which ever that is (PHEV?)

oh dear, my reasoning has lead to a Japanese consumer item

so the answer is probably samsung?? Korean i know but hey ho At work
At home

"I can't always believe facts I read on the web" - Charles Dickens

winner by default of the tractor vs caravan race

26th Jan 2017 5:55 pm

Mav71

Member Since: 15 Nov 2008
Location: Leicester
Posts: 2575

Fair points above. I would agree that the 3.0 X3 would offer a completely different experience to the 2.0, and would make for excellent unlimited pulling power, but I didn't drive the 3.0 as it wasn't on my radar so to speak.

But I stand by my thoughts over the 2.0 X3. I simply thought it was a soulless car to drive. Hard, and without meaning to be disrespectful, boring. I have seen too many X3's and more so X5's struggling when towing on wet grass in the past which has put me off as well.

But I don't think the wide tyres help. Especially on X5. BMW have made the X3 and X5 handle well by fitting wider tyres and more car like suspension which I personally think spoils the car. I don't want an SUV to handle and drive like a sports car, or I'd buy a 3-Series Touring for example.

The style of any car doesn't make it good or bad, that is 100% personal choice. I just don't like the Russian doll design theory that BMW appear to do.

The DS for sure is not perfect, and after a month of owning it, there are a few annoying niggles. The 54 Litre fuel tank is a strange decision, and the Bluetooth connectivity seems to be a bit hit and miss from time to time. There is also a lack of underfloor storage in the boot because of the 7 seats.

But the car is full of character which is what all the German cars lack.

But I 100% am glad I bought it, and would buy another, but hopefully with a petrol engine next time. Freelander 2 HSE Lux 2013MY - Barolo Black with Ivory Leather. Alpine DVD - Privacy -Evoque 20" Dynamic Wheels and more to come.........

5th Feb 2017 7:36 pm

shilen

Member Since: 29 Feb 2008
Location: In the Middle
Posts: 1774

MAV71 - "The style of any car doesn't make it good or bad, that is 100% personal choice. I just don't like the Russian doll design theory that BMW appear to do."

hmmmmm... and all Evoques, DS, DS Sports, RRS, FFRR don't look the same?????? LR have definitely gone down the russian doll design in recent years

13th Feb 2017 12:07 am

taztastic

Member Since: 03 Feb 2011
Location: North West
Posts: 8652

Light water shows an interesting picture ... what would LR want? I'm guessing existing FL2 owners trading up to a New Disvovery, not down to a Sport which has brought them a whole new market?

13th Feb 2017 12:29 am

chicken george

Member Since: 05 Dec 2007
Location: N. Yorks
Posts: 13289

we fear change, lancastrain luddite At work
At home

"I can't always believe facts I read on the web" - Charles Dickens

winner by default of the tractor vs caravan race

13th Feb 2017 8:44 am

Steve D

Member Since: 19 Jan 2013
Location: Essexshire
Posts: 4109

shilen wrote:
...hmmmmm... and all Evoques, DS, DS Sports, RRS, FFRR don't look the same?????? LR have definitely gone down the russian doll design in recent years

What's a DS Sports? Past: FL2 TD4 HSE Auto
Evoque SD4 Dynamic Lux Auto
Present: Audi A3 S Line.

13th Feb 2017 8:45 am

shilen

Member Since: 29 Feb 2008
Location: In the Middle
Posts: 1774

Brain ache on a Sunday night...

meant to put

'hmmmmm... and all Evoques, Discovery, Discovery Sport, RRS, FFRR don't look the same?????? LR have definitely gone down the russian doll design in recent years'

Could also put the Velar into the mix - which looks like a 5 door Evoque / RRS / FFRR........ Apparently created to bridge the gap in price between the Evoque and RRS

13th Feb 2017 11:56 am

LR NUT

Member Since: 12 May 2012
Location: Scotland
Posts: 4350

2014 Freelander 2 TD4_e Dynamic Manual Fuji White

I hate BMWs!!! But there model range design wise is more appealing than LR! Shilen is spot on MY14 Kahn Converted Dynamic - Fuji White Ebony/Pimento Interior
MY15 Xenon Headlight Conversion

MY17 RRS SVR - Estoril Blue Cirrus/Ebony ðŸª£ðŸ’ºâ€™s

13th Feb 2017 12:04 pm

Mav71

Member Since: 15 Nov 2008
Location: Leicester
Posts: 2575

shilen wrote:
MAV71 - "The style of any car doesn't make it good or bad, that is 100% personal choice. I just don't like the Russian doll design theory that BMW appear to do."

hmmmmm... and all Evoques, DS, DS Sports, RRS, FFRR don't look the same?????? LR have definitely gone down the russian doll design in recent years

In comparison to BMW and Audi? Not even close.

I just don't like the whole BMW image, product dealers etc.

My brother in law has just been round in his 66 plate 3.0 M-Sport X3. The engine is excellent I must say, but the way it drives and looks is just plain boring. Fast? Very! but thats about it.

He is a BMW man through and through, but he conceded that although the perceived build quality of the X3 is better, (which to a degree I agree with), the DS has more soul and charactor.

Each to their own of course, but I would never buy a BMW. I just don't see the attraction. Freelander 2 HSE Lux 2013MY - Barolo Black with Ivory Leather. Alpine DVD - Privacy -Evoque 20" Dynamic Wheels and more to come.........

13th Feb 2017 6:19 pm

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