I have Continental Cross Contact winter tyres on.
This morning I was on a number of back roads that had lots of ice. In fact they were all ice.
In front of me was an Audi a5 which was doing much better than I was. I couldn't believe at how he was getting around corners so much faster than I was. Actually, I've noticed this before, other cars on ice just seem to have better grip!
So, is this all down to me being rubbish or overly cautious? Or is it a weight thing. I expect lighter cars will be
better in this regard (although I expected that the Audi had wide low profile tyres which I would have thought would be even worse on ice).
By the way, I'm happy to go slower and get to my destination in one piece. I'm just curious as to why I had less grip than everyone else.

Nothing will grip on sheet ice unless you have studded tyres like they do in Finland.
The car in front always seems like its going faster thats why youre behind it.
Maybe the drive in front was better at reading the road and avoiding the ice patches better who knows?

The guy in front was probably thinking no matter how fast I go there always a Land Rover up my ass.

Yeah I was expecting to have a lack of grip due to the ice...I just wasn't expecting it to be only me. He/she was definitely going faster than me as I soon lost sight of him/her. Oh and the road was all ice. It wasn't just patches - at least on a large section of it.
Maybe it was just down to being an Audi driver. They all seem to have a disregard for road conditions, speed, braking distances etc.

Newtons second law of motion I think, basically a heavier car will fly off the road more easily if friction is reduced

The centre of gravity is also worse than the Audi which wont help, along with having testicles large enough to carry speed through a corner, that's not meant as an insult as I often wonder 'how the heck did he get round there at that speed'

I have snow tyres on mine, in the wet and snow they have a prodigious grip, on ice, they're pants, studs are the only real answer for hard ice.

Never try to keep up with the driver in front, drive your own drive. I expect the Audi driver likes living on the edge.
I think Land Rover have a permanent testing base just south of the arctic circle so our cars should be ok on ice. But you are right, the heavier the vehicle the more likely it is to fly off a bend or take longer to stop.

Thanks all. Just to be clear, I was in no way trying to keep up with anyone. I was happy going at my own,"this is safe" speed. I was just surprised at the lack of grip I had compared to other vehicles.

You could actually work it out if you had the actual coefficient of friction for that road surface at that moment in time. You'd need to factor in the different tyre section contact patch and different centres of mass. The biggest variable is the drivers bottle, or lack thereof...although the Stribeck curve suggests the faster you go the grip improves!

http://www.iaeng.org/publication/WCE2011/WCE2011_pp2381-2384.pdf Td4 XS manual, Orkney Grey, MY2014

The Stribek curves suggests the faster you 'slide' not the faster you go, once sliding sideways weight is transferred and the tyre deforms thus increasing grip, it doesn't mean going into a corner faster will get you out the other side

Re read what I said and what Stribeck says... Td4 XS manual, Orkney Grey, MY2014

I did, you said "the curve suggests the faster you go, Stribek suggests the 'sliding velocity' when increased will increase the coefficient of friction.

I've read it again ... Does it mean that friction is reduced under 'normal' forward driving and then increases as speed is gained, I read it as when a change in direction is applied?

If an 'increase in sliding velocity' doesn't mean 'faster' I don't know what does...

After 23 years investigating traffic collisions I could get really boring about theoretical application of physics in what was a debate about whether someone had the confidence to chuck a Freely into an icy corner  Td4 XS manual, Orkney Grey, MY2014

Sorry, it is interesting this and your input is valued, I think our last posts crossed, the databases crashed, can you clarify the 'going faster', to me it suggested simply entering the corner faster will give your more grip, I wouldn't think that was correct, however, a higher speed whilst sliding I can understand from the article as increasing friction.

I imagine that from the data and application of these curves, that much of the data gained is how manufacturers determine how the vehicle safety systems react?

stooby wrote:

By the way, I'm happy to go slower and get to my destination in one piece.

wurzel153 wrote:

I expect the Audi driver likes living on the edge.