If you wait for the new disco you risk ending up with something which has gone the same way as the FL2/DS. Maybe wait for the new disco to be announced, then buy an old version if the new doesn't live up to expectation, like the DS.

Each to there own but I wouldn't touch another DS and if the next generation Discovery follows on from the DS then my Disco will have to last. I should've listened to my doubts and bought the Discovery in the first place. I knew the day I picked it up and drove it home, the first junction I came to and couldn't see over the small hatch next to me was its first nail in the coffin but thought it would just take a bit of getting used to. I just put a brave face on and told friends and family it's great but deep down I just wasn't enjoying it. Expensive error but got a cracking trade in.

The Disco may look dated (IMO it's the best it's ever looked) but it's a recipe that works and that's why they are still selling well and LR are going to ruin it. A lot of early adopters of the DS are selling and going back to proper Discos and Fl2s according to my salesman one has even went to the dark side and bought a Jeep Grand Cherokee 21MY Defender 90 S 3.0 D200

We all make mistakes on the car buying front. I am like you-I would rather lose the money than have a car I don't enjoy driving. Chap in our village loves his DS but he came from a Ford Kuga. Your honesty has helped me decide to keep with the Freelander whilst I can though. I would love a Discovery 4 but couldn't afford the bills that come with them as they get older.

I should've learned my lesson after the Evoque.

I haven't missed the 26MPG. The road tax is slightly cheaper as this one is EU6 so has AdBlue i think it's £265 a year but have to double check. I've got 15.5k miles of AdBlue so that should see me to my first service which is all taken care of with its service pack 5yrs for £699. Though not as cheap to run as the Fl2 it's cheaper than Discos of old. 21MY Defender 90 S 3.0 D200

Another article in that LandRover Owner Magazine lamented LR's abandonment of the utility vehicle sector. In particular the article raised the dilemma of Aid Workers, Mine Clearance, Humanitarian and Conservation groups in Africa and South East Asia who have relied on the Green Oval brand for decades. The market here is relatively small numerically but has been the very underpinning of the Landrover brand image and contrary to popular belief - a 110 TDI Defender has been their preferred vehicle, not the vaunted Landcruisers etc. A modern, complex high tech Landcruiser is just as useless as any other modern high tech 4 x 4 where there is no readily available technician in a recovery truck to bring out a laptop to re-boot one of the computers. Land Rover desperately need that Defender replacement. The DS which is basically just another nice family soft-roader, indistinguishable from the rest of the market, does nothing for Landie brand identity.

Big big mistake by Land Rover to drop the Defender, I'm sure the Fl2 could've soldiered on for couple more years to allow the focus on the Defender. Can't LR still build it outside the EU to sell to aid agencies out with the European Union? 21MY Defender 90 S 3.0 D200

I agree that the demise of the Defender is a major problem for JLR . One of my sons is a geologist in Africa, he has worked in SA, Zambia, Botswana, DRC, Mauritania etc. He claims that Defenders are becoming quite rare now and the vehicles of choice are Nissan and Toyota (the UN only buys Landcruisers and lots of them).
However the Toyotas appear to be much simpler vehicles than those sold in Europe. A couple of years ago he bought 5 brand new Toyota landcruiser pickups for his company and they looked quite old fashioned compared with stuff you would buy here and they had minimal electronics too. He now swears by Toyota gear and can't believe the sort of problems with diffs and wheel bearings especially given the decent roads we have here. When I was in Botswana last year we went for a 50 mile drive along a hard dirt road in his own Landcruiser 200, the road was like corrugated concrete and the car had over 100k miles on the clock (with no problems) and seemed to soak it all up despite having two ripped steering gaiters on the rack. He has no fancy traction control, just a centre difflock.
Until recently you could buy "new" Defenders out there with the old engines and probably wouldn't pass EU emmisions. The problem now is that with few dealers in Africa it will be hard for JLR to retake the market. 3 x FL1 2 manual + 1 auto
5 x FL2 4 manual + 1 auto
Now Discovery Sport P250 MHEV SE

I've done some research into the cars I would look at buying next. I say it's inaccurate because I've done it and am more than likely to have some of the measurements wrong somewhere along the way. Each car has been looked at in terms of size, off road ability, boot space, MPG, acceleration, etc. A car may have the largest boot space, so it gets marked up for that but may get marked down for its length or width. Similarly a car may accelerate the fastest but may be marked down by its MPG or road tax cost. I've not looked at the "emotional" stuff such as how does it drive, do you want to own one, etc. Occasionally I have guessed the measurements such as RR seat length. I've sat in many and thus could try and guess whether there was more room in it than say a Disco. So to be clear this is not scientific but I've tried to take the most accurate results where possible.

The measurements (taken from brochures, media packs and the internet) were:

Roads tax
MPG
Acceleration
Approach, ramp, departure angles
Ground clearance
Wading depth
Boot length
Boot width
Boot capacity
Front seat length
Rear seat length
Overall length
Overall height
Overall width

The results were:

D4 - 74
Disco Sport - 69
Range Rover TDV6 - 68
XC90 (new one) D5 - 68
XC70 D5 - 61
Freelander - 55
A6 Allroad - 54

I am of course very sorry to see the FL2 so low down but I had to be honest. Had I done results on how much you love the cars, etc, it would have been a different story. Looks like when it comes time to exchange cars (definitely not yet!) it will be a Discovery.

My key requirements were:
Auto: Proper auto that is, not dual clutch, for Sydney's start stop traffic on hilly terrain!
Petrol: 91, 95 or 98, any will do.
Length: Tiguan was the only car that was shorter than the Freelander but it had a DSG so that ruled it out.
Full size spare wheel: No biscuits for Australian roads thank you very much!
Folding mirrors: The garage door opening is a bit challenging and once the car is in the garage the left mirror would be against the wall.
Height: To see above and around all the other blo_dy 4wd school run/shopping centre cars in Australia!

Roads tax: Not overly worried about, would have bought another small car if it was an issue (Australia NSW road tax is car weight, all the cars I considered are over 1504 kg).
MPG: Not overly worried about.
Acceleration: Not overly worried about.
Approach, ramp, departure angles: Not overly worried about.
Ground clearance: As long as it was reasonable.
Wading depth: Not overly worried about.
Boot length: Had to be able to sleep in the back with the back seats down if it is pis_ing down! Just enough room!
Boot width: As long as it was reasonable.
Boot capacity: As long as it was reasonable.
Front seat length: Seats are comfortable.
Rear seat length: Almost never use the back seats so it is a mute point.
Overall length: Short as possible.
Overall height: Had to fit in garage due to lack of street parking, Defender was not going to work!
Overall width: 2745mm to play with within garage, so the Freelander is about as wide as I can cope with and can still get out of the car with some resemblance of respectability!

A couple more:
Good visibility: Most new cars these days 'you need to option a sunroof to see out of the car'! I don't want a sunroof in Australia.
Colour: White paint and light coloured leather to avoid 3rd degree burns! Procrastination, mankind's greatest labour saving device!

Acoustic insulation ARB TPMS 3xARB air compressors After cooler Air tank On-board OCD pressure air/water cleaning Additional 50L fuel Carpet in doors ABE 2x1kg Waeco 28L modified fridge Battery 4x26ah Solar 120w Victron MPPT 100/20 DC-DC 18amps 175amp jumper plug Awning 6x255/60R18

Looks like the phasing out of the cheaper Freelander might have been a mistake, Land Rover are now stuck with only high end models just as the world market starts to slow again.

http://www.livemint.com/Companies/bsm9IFp3...entry.html

They do need to look at the circa £22k-£25k market. The entry level Disco Sport is still some time away. Freelander 2 HSE Lux 2013MY - Barolo Black with Ivory Leather. Alpine DVD - Privacy -Evoque 20" Dynamic Wheels and more to come.........

i think its been mentioned here before about FL2 prices compared to DS prices. (don't have time at work to search thoroughly)

When the FL2 was introduced its starting price was (for example) 22k OTR. The bottom priced DS is currently around 30k (open to correction but just using rough figures as examples)

When you factor in the rate of inflation, increased production costs etc etc etc. then under current money the entry FL2 would also be around 30k OTR.

So the latest entry level DS is priced (comparatively) the same as the entry level FL2 was when it was first introduced.

LR's problem is in the fact that many other manufacturers offer very good equivalents for a lot less money than a DS now, BUT..... will they hold their value as well as a LR product ? does a Hyundai have the same badge kudos as a LR ?

LR claim to be a competitive manufacturer of 4x4 vehicles but they clearly aren't.

they are trying to be a luxury market 4x4 in a family market 4x4 sector. They need to stop adding wade assist, incline assist, blind spot assist, etc etc etc and look at what the cars currently do (i.e. spend 99.9% of the time on road in most cases) and design and price their cars accordingly in order to compete.
They should really be entering the market at the low 20k area in order to keep sales up with the competition. and make the cars less complex and more reliable.

all this is just my personal laymans opinion of course,

The DS is pants pure and simple. Been there done it. LRs that'll do attitude ruined what could've been a good car. Too many corners cut. 21MY Defender 90 S 3.0 D200

Totally agree with your comments.

j77 wrote:

The DS is pants pure and simple. Been there done it. LRs that'll do attitude ruined what could've been a good car. Too many corners cut.

Neither me , my brother or my son liked the DS when we attended a LR sales event and got to drive it. Boot floor too flimsy, didn't feel like 35k worth of car. We all much preferred the Evoque that we test drove (we also liked the RR Sport Autobiography but felt this was just outside our price range )