Hi All,

I've been through quite a few of the posts, as well as various websites, but I still don't feel confident enough in the off-road capabilities of the FL2.

I've seen videos, I know that it got the Top Gear SUV of the year award; I know it is more of a Land rover than the FL1, but what I want to know is if anyone here has actually REALLY tested the off-road capabilities.

I will be moving to Australia in a few weeks, and there I will be joining a few 4x4 enthusiasts on some trips. Most of the driving can probably be done without low-range, but they do have quite a few outings where it will be required. The majority of vehicles that they use include Defender, Prado, Pajero, Patrol etc.

I know that it is a tall order to want to include a "softroader" in this ranks, but my priorities in purchasing a vehicle differs a bit from the normal 4x4 owner.

1) I want a safe vehicle, and I do believe that there is some value in using the European NCAP ratings on vehicle safety. The FL2 scores 5 stars here, and is also best in class. The best that I've seen for the larger 4x4s is 4 stars. (compare FL2 with D3 frontal, side and child protection - FL2 94%,100%,82%, D3 69%,100%,80%)
2) Fuel efficiency. Having looked at the figures that Avtur supplied, there aren't any other vehicles (that I would consider at least) that can compete. On the larger 4x4s, I can expect about 28 mpg (10 km/l), which means that I will be able to travel 30 - 40% further with the same fuel budget on the FL2.
3) Ride comfort - let's face it, at least 80% of the time the vehicle will be driven on tarmac or gravel
4) Off-road ability. This is where my real issue lies. I really love this car, but I need to know (honestly, and not just a bunch of sales talk) wether it will be able to keep up with the rest of the team in their low range vehicles (well - at least 80% of the time).

Your input & truthful opinions will be greatly appreciated.

braamb wrote:

Hi All,

I've been through quite a few of the posts, as well as various websites, but I still don't feel confident enough in the off-road capabilities of the FL2.

I've seen videos, I know that it got the Top Gear SUV of the year award; I know it is more of a Land rover than the FL1, but what I want to know is if anyone here has actually REALLY tested the off-road capabilities.

I will be moving to Australia in a few weeks, and there I will be joining a few 4x4 enthusiasts on some trips. Most of the driving can probably be done without low-range, but they do have quite a few outings where it will be required. The majority of vehicles that they use include Defender, Prado, Pajero, Patrol etc.

I know that it is a tall order to want to include a "softroader" in this ranks, but my priorities in purchasing a vehicle differs a bit from the normal 4x4 owner.

1) I want a safe vehicle, and I do believe that there is some value in using the European NCAP ratings on vehicle safety. The FL2 scores 5 stars here, and is also best in class. The best that I've seen for the larger 4x4s is 4 stars. (compare FL2 with D3 frontal, side and child protection - FL2 94%,100%,82%, D3 69%,100%,80%)
2) Fuel efficiency. Having looked at the figures that Avtur supplied, there aren't any other vehicles (that I would consider at least) that can compete. On the larger 4x4s, I can expect about 28 mpg (10 km/l), which means that I will be able to travel 30 - 40% further with the same fuel budget on the FL2.
3) Ride comfort - let's face it, at least 80% of the time the vehicle will be driven on tarmac or gravel
4) Off-road ability. This is where my real issue lies. I really love this car, but I need to know (honestly, and not just a bunch of sales talk) wether it will be able to keep up with the rest of the team in their low range vehicles (well - at least 80% of the time).

Your input & truthful opinions will be greatly appreciated.

I've driven one off road (and I wouldn't say I was an offroading expert), and I was totally blown away by its capabilities. The only issue is with ground clearance, but if you take this into account, then you shouldn't have any issues. The day I drove one off-road was the last snowy day we had, so the ground was still frozen. We did all the same things (on the same route) as both a Disco 3 and a Defender. The instructor I had was really singing the praises of the FL2 - he said it was fully worthy of the green oval.

Why don't you try one off road - you should be able to get a taster session via your nearest dealer or failing that, call LR admin and tell them your worries about its off roading and I'm sure they'll fall over themselves to let it prove itself to you.

My sister had a Pajero, and the FL2 is way ahead of this in its abilities.

Hope this helps

BG

Thanks for the input. I will try to arrange for a test when I get to Australia.

Not being an off-road specialist myself, I have to say this ground clearance issue confuses me a bit. I know that you require substantial ground clearance to clear obstacles, but from the sites that I visited it seems that the FL2 has fairly reasonable ground clearance compared to other vehicles.

Looking at the off-roaders that I mentioned before, the ground clearance for each is as follows (in mm):
Patrol = 210
Pajero = 225
Prado = 181 (VX model)
D3 = 185 (however with air suspension this is increased when required)
FL2 = 210

These seem to be similar to me, and I assume that one can change the tires or something to increase the ground clearance.

I am slowly looking to explore the off road ability. Have so far tried snow, mud, soft sand beach and shale beach - all with gradients involved - and so far haven't got it stuck! I get to go on my LR Experience day in a couple of weeks time and I've asked to go in a FL2 so as to try and get an idea of what can be done when in the hands of experts!

The one thing that concerns me is making progress at low speed, given the lack of a low box. If you look at the speed in first gear with say 1500 rpm on the clock (starting to climb the torque curve) you can see that this might be too fast for some situations, never mind 2000 rpm for max touque. This means that to cope with lower speeds there is going to have to be some clutch slipping. This is my worry because the car has a dual mass flywheel, which from what I can gather brings some inherent weakness to the clutch. This has been highlighted in a couple of reviews I've read. (If you read about clutch/dual mass flywheel on other mass produced Fords, say Galaxy and Mondeo, there seems to be a volume of annecdotal evidence about weak clutches). I guess this is why some reviewers have said that the auto version will be the better off road performer.


I've had the chance to compare my manual FL2 back to back with an auto FL1 in mild to moderate mud and gully type conditions and I have to admit speed control was better in the auto because there wasn't the constant worry about slipping the clutch. I'll be interested to see what sort of treatment the clutch gets when I sample the LR Experience - and ask if they have had any problems with clutches.

The most negative (or may be realistic?) comment I've read to date have appeared in the current (May) issue of Land Rover World. The article is a strange mix of plus and minus points which includes the following comments (I hope it is OK to quote, if not mod's please correct me!) "The FL2 will be absolutely fine on most green lanes, but if things get muddy, steep or too lumpy, turn back." This would seem to be reflective of that lack of low box and ground clearance. Also "It is practical and will be a better option than any of its rivals, but anyone who buys one should ignore the hype and stick to places to which the car is suited. The auto diesel will be the best off road option."

I ran a F1 TD4 for 2 years and I offroaded it a lot, and I mean some pretty serious stuff. There was only one area of weakness in the F1 that was of concern to me whenever another owner asked me about taking their car offroad - I would always recommend them to avoid taking a manual gearboxed F1 offroad, Automatics were MUCH better than manuals and I assume that it will be the same with the F2. F1's cooked their clutches far too easily. Mine was a TD4 Auto and after owning Discos for years and never taking them offroad it took a little Freelander to get me into it................................ now I offroad in a Defender and so do several other ex Freelander1 owners that I know. How can carbon have a footprint, it has no feet?
Now driving - RRE Coupe Dynamic Lux Auto with Plus pack, Fuji White, Ebony, SD4 with tow pack
Gone - 2010MY FFRR TDv8 Stornoway and Ivory, Privacy - the pace of a TDv8 RRS, the incomparable grace of a Range Rover
Gone but will be missed- RRS Tdv8 HSE Stornoway Grey with Ebony Leather
Gone (only a little missed) RRS Tdv6 2.7SE Giverny Green/Aspen
Defender 90 County HT in Epsom Green

Thanks Tim, I think that rather backs up the picture I'm getting ....


Can you help me justify a Series 3 to 'her in doors' ????

Off roading is about more than ground clearance (BTW D3 figures seem to be at access height, you have another 4 levels beyond that!) It is also about axle articulation and how you get to apply the power. It will (as will any LR product) go places you never thought possible, wet slippery conditions and sand will be ideal for it, deep ruts if you can't straddle them will stop you as will rocks. There are quite a few Aussies on Disco3.co.uk have a chat with them for their opinions of the terrain you are likley to drive - I'm sure they will be very helpful. D4 HSE Lux for me
FL2 HSE Zermatt & Alpacca for the wife now gone
Skoda Yeti L&K for the wife.

Just to get my tuppence worth in...

Agree with everything Tim says. Actually, Tim's path into off-roading is uncannily similar to ours in a number of ways. We did some pretty serious stuff during the time we had our (auto) FL1, had a ball and now have a Defender 90 for off-roading.

The main issues off-roading a FL1 are ground clearance and the manual box.

As long as you can avoid deep ruts you'll hardly have any problems at all -- when you have no option other than to fall into deep ruts you will have problems with either FL1 or FL2.

The relative lack of articulation is not as big a hinderance as you might think it is -- sometimes it helps by allowing the FL to ride over deep potholes because the wheels don't fall into the hole and the traction control keeps it moving.

The earlier question about ground clearance is a good one -- the quoted figures can be extremely misleading unless it's clear what they refer to.

e.g. I think I've read that the quoted ground clearances for the D3 and Defender are the same or very similar. But factor into that that the figures quoted for the Defender are to its lowest point which is the bottom of the diffs which have a contact patch area with the ground of a few square inches whereas the figure for the D3 is to virtually the whole of the underside of the body of the car which has a contact patch area of quite a few square metres then you can see that the figures aren't referring to the same thing at all. Standard Defenders have far higher useable ground clearance than anything else in the Land Rover range in spite of what the quoted specs might indicate.

That's not a criticism by the way -- nothing wrong with the off-road performance of D3s, FLs, whatever -- just be wary of the numbers in the spec.... Bill

'97 Land Rover 300Tdi Defender 90 "Big Red" - Never Clean
'78 Triumph Spitfire 2500 - Much Modified
'76 Triumph 2000TC Saloon - Forever Original
ex V6 Freelander owner not interested in another shiny Land Rover at the moment

Ahh but the D3 lifts itself higher if grounded and can go further still! I still think you should speak to some Aussies who know the area you are driving as I wouldn't think slippy slidy mud is too common, but big boulders and the like might be a real problem. D4 HSE Lux for me
FL2 HSE Zermatt & Alpacca for the wife now gone
Skoda Yeti L&K for the wife.

Hello everyone,
In the middle east 4x4 sand surfing is a sport, even an art form for some.
The Range Rover's are effortsly great for anyone flamboynt enough to sand surf in one,but the LR3's are known to be heavy,under powered and slugish going up a dune,especially the V6's.
The Morrocan Freelander2 videos show impressive performance with the TR system,but most sands there are firm and were mostly wet at the test time.

Other than the morrocan expedition,does anyone have info or real life experinces on the performance of the LR2/freelander2 on soft sand dunes or beaches.

Thank you

I did the off road experience when I bought my new Disco 3, and the vehicle was amazing.The guys there said that the Freelander 1 would do exactly the same course as the Disco 3 which I found hard to believe! The new freelander should be even better.