Is it supposed to self bleed if there is air in the system?

It is possible that its just the same pocket of air in the loop between the filter and the pump going round in circles?

I think it is ment to self bleed air out, as even the way land rover tell us todo it will let air into the system. No way can you prime it there way with out letting air into the filter or pipes once you remove the ( super dear land rover bulb ) then marry the fuel tank pipe and the filter together. Plus they tell you to pump until you feel the bulb harden so you end up trapping any air already in the out lines?

Had a light bulb moment and to be honest think you could prime the filter with a hoover on low setting? Connect filter to fuel tank pipe close off return holes, put a lengh of fuel pipe or fish tank pipe from the filter out ( going to high lift pump out ) then just take the pipe to a hoover and suck until fuel comes out of the filter and towards the hoover? Pull pipe off and connect high lift pump and return pipes? Least this way you know you dont have air in fuel tank pipe.

As land rover states even doing it there way you should restart engine with throttle pedal pushed to the floor and once started leave it ticking over at high revs, to clear any remainder of air out the system.

Think it might work? Freelander 57 plate XS Blue Auto

Right oh well today we tried a few more things

Fitted the filter the other day, ended up with the same old starting crap and air in the system ( primed correctly )

today we put a air blower into the fuel filler and pressurized the tank to see if there was a leak in the fuel pipes, no leaks found.

Took apart all the connectors on the fuel tank, all looked fine so used sticky grease and then popped back on, same with all the filter connectors all fine and used same grease.

We checked the fuel pipe from the tank to filter to see if it was clear ( all fine ) checked the return line again all fine.

Next thing we want to try is to put a different fuel tank to the filter in and see if we still get these bubbles

The amount of bubbles ( air ) that keeps going through the filter or from the filter I should say is a large amount. its getting to the point that the engine is nocking while running as its pumping all this air around

Search goes one

Dan Freelander 57 plate XS Blue Auto

I wouldn't worry about that bit of air, vehicles at work I often see air bubbles in the line, my Disco does it, both my Freelanders did it.

I know you have checked the EGR but.... I used to have a cold start issue where the revs went between 750 to 1000 and back every few seconds. No smoke out the back though and I never revved it any higher than 1000 just to stabilise it. Foot off the throttle and it was up and down again. I recently blanked the EGR and problem has vanished now.

Cheers for the replys

Will have alook at the egr again when back under the bonnet

As re the bubbles a few and I could understand but its a large amount in the system, to the point that when it was ticking over and revs build you can hear the engine nock from the injectors bashing in fuel and air in. This is something that I have heard from time to time at 1800 and up until it changes up a gear then the noise stops again until you get to the next 1800 and it changes up again, if you push the stick across and hold it in a gear at say 1900 then you can keep the noise ( nock ) going until you change either the revs / gear so its out of those revs. You can also sometime hear this noise but alittle less If you are going along and very lightly push the throttle pedal then the noise will start until you either push harder or lift off. Must point out though that it dosnt always do this but from time to time it does. Random

Can bet a million pound that tomorrow when starting it from cold, it will suck so much air out from the filter that the return lines from the rail and hp pump will turn milky with air until the engine warms then it will go back to normal colour and then every now and then large gulps of air bubbles will come out of the filter to the lift pump so on and so forth, also between the large amounts of air will be very small bubbles shooting along

Would be handy if there was away to bleed any air from the rail ( to check it ) but there does not seem to be away to do this?

We will try to put clear bubble free fuel to the lift pump and start from cold to see if we get smooth normal starting idle but need to find away or buy one of those push fit connectors ( not sure where to buy this part, the one that's on the fuel pipe end that goes into the filter )


Dan Freelander 57 plate XS Blue Auto

In theory the bulb pumps are just one way valves so should still allow flow when plumbed into the line. You could attach the bulb pump to the tank to filter line and monitor the return filter to tank line and pump it till the return is definitely clear of any air. Then start it up without disconnecting the bulb pump.

Might sound daft but have you opened up the drain valve of the filter. I know that this is really for draining out Water but if you opened it and pumped the bulb it may also force out air to.

This is something we have thought about putting a bulb in all the time I think that's what the freelander has in its fuel system?

Tried every which way to remove the air but always air seems to get back in

If we can / when we do run a different fuel tank to the filter ( fuel can ) to get pure fuel to flow into the filter then this should show us hopefully that its either something todo with the fuel lines or the tank sender unit its self. if we still get air then it has to be a return problem or something wrong with the pump. the random thing is that we don't get anything at all leak from the truck, if we did it would be easy as pie to find the fix.

Wouldn't mind betting a lot of freelander 2s have this problem, as I have read countless storys and hardly ever a fix, unless its something normal ( plugs, injectors.... )


Starts you going mad when you wish to find a leak

Cheers again any ideas are good ones Freelander 57 plate XS Blue Auto

Funnily enough, was down at the stables this morning talking to someone who has a nissan pickup and was having starting problems if it had sat for a while. I had a play about with it last week and suggested the fuel was flowing back to the tank, and air getting into the line.

He got it fixed by a garage, and the solution?

A bulb thing attached permanently into the fuel line running from the tank to the filter. And it works a treat now. ! So, it does look like they can say in situ.

Its on the list of things to try

One thing we tryed was to disconnect the return line from the filter to the tank and tryed to blow down it but could not blow any air down it to the tank? Is this normal? We would of thought it should be easy to blow air back into the tank down this return line?

Cheers

Dan Freelander 57 plate XS Blue Auto

No, it's not normal.
But how did you tried? With or without the fuel tank cap?
Try it again without fuel cap and if you still can't blow air through the return line, then there is a problem...

Could not blow down it with the filler cap on or off, we thought that it might be something todo with the pot in the fuel tank? Maybe it only allows fuel back to the tank once the engine is running?

Hmm Freelander 57 plate XS Blue Auto

Update

Took the truck upto keith gotts again and left it there this time for a few days they did there diagnostic checks on the truck from cold and low and behold everything come back fine and all working So least we know all that's going well lol but still to find the fault, going to do somemore tests via the fuel system next and see if we can find this air leak type thing that's going on

Cheers

Dan Freelander 57 plate XS Blue Auto

Hi all

Bit of an update

Sinse it has started getting colder the truck has been (Starting more normal )

Over the last 2 week or so it has started with No smoke, No lumpy revs, and you can rev it from cold with No rev problems

Tonight has been are coldist night so far, and I just went out and started it after sitting for a few days and it started like a normal truck with no problems

I still have air in the fuel lines and it still nocks ( air sound nocks ) but the cold start problems seem to have stopped sinse it has become colder. Any ideas as to why this might happen?

The other day ( last Friday ) I did notice on the way to pick up my wife I had an info ( I ) light pop up and then the cluster screen froze and I could not view the message, turned the truck off and on a few times and still froze up, after driving 15 miles somewhere and parking up for an hour when restarting the info ( I ) was gone but the black line remained like it was frozen on, after a short drive I turned off and on again and all was working like normal again ( rather odd ) all seems fine again now and have not had the problem return ( touch wood )

Dan Freelander 57 plate XS Blue Auto

Whether its related or possibly not, I came across this discussion today about air in the fuel lines similar to what you describe. At the bottom is an interesting post about the pick up in the tank being blocked to the point that the suction at the engine end is strong enough to draw air in past the o-rings around the filter cause it can't draw enough from the tank.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=342025