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Iliacus



Member Since: 24 Jan 2014
Location: Herefordshire
Posts: 256

England 2013 Freelander 2 SD4 XS Auto Orkney Grey
Keyless cars 'increasingly targeted by thieves'

An article on the BBC web site implies that this is becoming and increasing commom issue to the point where insurers are refusing to offer cover in London. It looks like JLR are the newest target after BMW and AUDI; http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-29786320

"The criminal act of stealing vehicles through the re-programming of remote-entry keys is an on-going industry-wide problem," said Jaguar Land Rover.

"Our line-up continues to meet the insurance industry requirements as tested and agreed with relevant insurance bodies."

I gues the new Disco Sport will have this system. GONE - '07 TD4 GS manual Zermatt Silver
LONG GONE - '55 Norton Dominator 99 SS cafe racer

Post #239177 27th Oct 2014 2:32 pm
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shiggsy



Member Since: 13 Jan 2013
Location: Kent
Posts: 799

United Kingdom 2007 Freelander 2 TD4 HSE Auto Baltic Blue

Range Rovers are getting refused insurance in London now unless they have secure parking facilities.

"High-end motor insurers are refusing to insure new Range Rovers in London after a series of thefts. In what could be a serious blow to Jaguar Land Rover, which makes the cars, underwriters are understood to be declining to insure Range Rovers unless the owners have underground or secure parking.
The problem has grown so rapidly in the past three months that insurers and insurance brokers have asked to meet Jaguar Land Rover to discuss the issue.
Thieves are targeting vehicles with �keyless� ignition systems as they have found a way to bypass the security using a hand-held electronic device that can be bought on eBay.
Thatcham Research, the motor insurers� automotive research centre, said that between January and July this year, 294 Range Rover Evoque and Sport vehicles were stolen in London. During the same period, 63 BMW X5s, a rival to the Range Rover, were taken.
Keith Dowley, a commercial property adviser, who bought a Range Rover this month after his previous one was stolen from outside his house in southwest London, said that he was refused cover from AIG because he did not have underground parking. Mr Dowley said: �How many people living in London have that type of parking?�
He said that when he contacted Range Rover, he was told it was an issue he had to resolve. �I had to tell them, �No, this is your problem, I have just bought a �100,000 car from you, if I can�t get insurance, I can�t drive it, and if I can�t drive it, I don�t want it�.�
He secured cover from another insurer, after agreeing to transfer all his business to them, including his house insurance.
James Wasdell, co-founder of Quantum Underwriting, said: �If you are an owner of a �street parked� Range Rover [in London], even with the most sophisticated tracker, nine out of ten insurers will now say no. However, we have been able to find a solution by combining the use of physical protection [for the car] and advising clients to insure all their assets with one insurer.�
Ashley Cole, of Aqua Underwriting, said it had recently paid out on four stolen Range Rovers. �With new business, unless there is underground parking or some form of secure parking and a category 5 tracker installed we will not insure Range Rovers,� he said.
A spokesman for AIG said that it may request additional security measures such as private garaging or the installation of mechanically movable bollards.
A spokesman for Jaguar Land Rover said the criminal re-programming of remote-entry keys was an industry-wide problem, adding: �Our line-up continues to meet the insurance industry requirements as tested and agreed with relevant insurance bodies. Nevertheless we are taking this issue very seriously and our engineering teams are actively working in collaboration with insurance bodies and police forces to solve this continuously evolving problem. This has already resulted in a number of prosecutions.� 
Hung like Einstein, smart as a horse.

Post #239180 27th Oct 2014 2:46 pm
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npinks



Member Since: 28 Jun 2007
Location: Ls25
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United Kingdom 

this is one of the reasons why I kept away from the DS, the RRS2 been stolen so easily by those in the know, and im sure JLR will just use the same system on the DS Former Mod/Member, with the most post & Chicken George Arch nemesis

Post #239182 27th Oct 2014 3:13 pm
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ad210358



Member Since: 12 Oct 2008
Location: Here and There
Posts: 7464

England 

It has been said over on Disco4 that it's possible that scanners are picking up and copying the frequencies when pressing the buttons of the Fob, if you keep your Fob in your pocket and use the door handles to lock and unlock, the range is very small around two feet so unless someone's in your pocket. On mine if I approach the door with my left side and the Fob is in my right pocket, the range is to far and I can't open the door, same as when if I get in and put the Fob in the door pocket, it won't start, just get a message "smart key not found".

Post #239196 27th Oct 2014 6:35 pm
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taztastic



Member Since: 03 Feb 2011
Location: North West
Posts: 8652

England 

Aftermarket kits are already coming onto the market in an attempt to thwart the growing problem.


Click image to enlarge

Post #239197 27th Oct 2014 6:41 pm
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Tradewind 35



Member Since: 04 Dec 2012
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 441

United Kingdom 2007 Freelander 2 TD4 GS Manual Baltic Blue

I thought the issue was with the keyless entry systems whereby the car and key fob communicate with each other when in range - is that not where the vulnerability lies rather than with the older style fobs where you have to press the button to unlock and then dock the fob to start - surely a
more secure system?

Post #239223 27th Oct 2014 10:10 pm
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dorsetfreelander



Member Since: 20 Jul 2013
Location: Dorset
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United Kingdom 2014 Freelander 2 SD4 XS Auto Loire Blue

I thought that these things worked on a "rolling code" basis where there is a list of random codes (basically a long hexadecimal code similar to that used to gain access to a wifi router) know to the individual car and the key fobs so that every time the vehicle locks it is then expecting a different code to open it. Hence recording the last transmitted code doesn't help the thief open it.
The system is pretty old really, my daughter's 53 reg Renault Megane had it.

Post #239248 28th Oct 2014 9:17 am
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Iliacus



Member Since: 24 Jan 2014
Location: Herefordshire
Posts: 256

England 2013 Freelander 2 SD4 XS Auto Orkney Grey

I think the system with the problem is one where you don't touch the key/fob, you just need to have it in you pocket. You don't press anything to enter the car and just press the start button when you are in.

The earlier system with remote locking where you needed to press the button on the key fob has been around for a while. The rolling code was developed to stop people "eavesdropping" on the signal when you locked/unlocked your car and using that for entry. They still needed to bypass the ignition/steering lock once inside.

The new system allows them access to the car by unlocking the doors. One inside they plug into the ECU port and reprogramm it and can then start it and drive away.

We'll probably need a retinal scanner to get in and a 16 digit PIN to start it soon Rolling with laughter GONE - '07 TD4 GS manual Zermatt Silver
LONG GONE - '55 Norton Dominator 99 SS cafe racer

Post #239261 28th Oct 2014 10:52 am
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dorsetfreelander



Member Since: 20 Jul 2013
Location: Dorset
Posts: 4354

United Kingdom 2014 Freelander 2 SD4 XS Auto Loire Blue

" We'll probably need a retinal scanner to get in and a 16 digit PIN to start it soon "

I thought for a minute that you said "Rectal scanner" - now that would be something. Laughing

Post #239271 28th Oct 2014 11:26 am
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Stevie5tapes



Member Since: 10 Jun 2012
Location: Brighouse, YORKSHIRE
Posts: 1370

England 2013 Freelander 2 TD4_e GS Auto Sumatra Black

I believe LR main dealers use rectal scanners, at least it felt like it last time I was paying for a new door latch!! Black MY2013 SD4 GS Auto, Wood Company Armrest, Freel2 sticker.
Gone MY2010 Freelander 2 Manual TD4.e S, Alaska White.

Post #239278 28th Oct 2014 12:55 pm
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CRC@LandRover
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Member Since: 04 Oct 2012
Location: Coventry
Posts: 319

United Kingdom 

Hi

Land Rover is aware of a rise in the number of thefts of Land Rover products. The current Land Rover line-up continues to meet the insurance industry requirements as tested and agreed with the relevant insurance bodies, nevertheless the company has taken this issue very seriously and our engineering teams have been working in collaboration with insurance bodies and police forces to fully understand the attack risks facing Land Rover models. It is however important to remember that this is an industry-wide issue and not specific to Land Rover vehicles only.

We have released a number of security updates in the last 12 months and have further updates due this year. We are continually updating and improving our security systems to ensure we stay ahead of the criminals and the industry-wide problem which the motor industry in general is tackling on a daily basis.

Regards

Ryan Please note that although Jaguar Land Rover will try to assist you with your issue, we are unable to provide any direct technical advice. This account will be available between 0900 and 17:00 hours Monday � Friday. If it is outside of this time, and you require assistance, please feel free to drop us a Private Message and we�ll get back to you as soon as we can

Post #239379 29th Oct 2014 11:51 am
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Moleshome



Member Since: 16 Oct 2014
Location: Right behind you with a chloroform soaked rag
Posts: 133

England 2007 Freelander 2 TD4 SE Manual Tambora Flame

Just out of interest, how are these security updates rolled out?

Having just bought a 'previously enjoyed' vehicle from an independent dealer how do I ensure that these security flaws are fixed?

Post #239387 29th Oct 2014 12:21 pm
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Badger1970



Member Since: 21 Sep 2012
Location: Southam, Warwickshire
Posts: 1372

United Kingdom 2013 Freelander 2 SD4 HSE Lux Auto Baltic Blue

Moleshome wrote:
Just out of interest, how are these security updates rolled out?


I would imagine, that you would need to take it to a Main Dealer to get the updates. No doubt they will charge for such luxury, after all, its their coffee that you will be drinking whilst they carry out the work.

I can't imagine JLR would release such important updates to an independent dealer/repairer...I may be wrong, but I would be surprised if that was the case given the sensitivity. Foraging near Gaydon....
��������������
MY13 HSE Lux SD4, Baltic Blue - current, 30,000> miles without fault
MY12 HSE 2.2 SD4, Sumatra Black - gone after 10 months/43,000 fault-free miles

Post #239389 29th Oct 2014 12:27 pm
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Andy131



Member Since: 09 Dec 2009
Location: Manchester
Posts: 2187

United Kingdom 

Looks like an OBD lock is the quick answer

http://tieronevehiclesolutions.com/product...protected/

and no I don't know if it works, but having one fitted makes yours harder to steal, so thieves generally will pick on another easier car. Tangiers Orange - gone, missing her
Replaced by Ewok what a mistake - now a happy Disco Sport owner

Post #239396 29th Oct 2014 2:05 pm
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CRC@LandRover
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Member Since: 04 Oct 2012
Location: Coventry
Posts: 319

United Kingdom 

Hi Moleshome

Software updates are routinely applied to vehicles upon visits to Land Rover approved retailers and Land Rover continually release updated software to address concerns and additionally provide improvements.

However, recently we have identified a significant increase in criminal activity which has prompted us to investigate and address the concerns at a higher level.

Thanks

Ryan Please note that although Jaguar Land Rover will try to assist you with your issue, we are unable to provide any direct technical advice. This account will be available between 0900 and 17:00 hours Monday � Friday. If it is outside of this time, and you require assistance, please feel free to drop us a Private Message and we�ll get back to you as soon as we can

Post #239406 29th Oct 2014 2:54 pm
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