Hi All,

Just after some peoples thoughts and potentially a warning for other buyers.

I ordered a pioneer underseat sub, the next day they rang and told me it wasn't in stock and offered me a "better" sub by a company I hadn't herd of (in phase) at a discount.

After a quick google reviews looked good and the inphase website listed specs that were comparable or better than my original choice so went for this option.

At this point I haven't received the goods courier is delivering on monday, but a friend pointed out the deal sounded too good to be true, (I was at work when they called so didn't do alot of reserach into the inphase brand just took there recommendation)

After doing some more research I found quite a few forum posts (from a few years ago) stating similar practices. After some more research (whios/company house) both the CAC website, inpase, and another site (car audio returns) are all owned by the same company.

To return it I will have to call a 75p per min number and pay a £30 charge for collection plus won't get my original postage refunded.

I don't really have any options that won't cost me more money or take up lots of my time, I paid the initial sum using pay pal with the additional with VISA debit.

At the moment I am just making assumptions but all the products are cheeper than else where so if they use that as the hook to get the buyer in then change the product one they import themselves quite unfair to the consumer.

The product may be very good but I feel I have been deceived and have no way of comparing it to the pioneer product to see if it is as good as they say.

Jon Freelander 2, 2014 Dynamic SD4 Santorini Black

That reeks of actions contrary to The Consumer Protection From Unfair Trading Regulations 2008. Telephone the trading standards for that area.

Aggressive commercial practices

7. (1) A commercial practice is aggressive if, in its factual context, taking account of all of its features and circumstances—
(a)it significantly impairs or is likely significantly to impair the average consumer’s freedom of choice or conduct in relation to the product concerned through the use of harassment, coercion or undue influence; and
(b)it thereby causes or is likely to cause him to take a transactional decision he would not have taken otherwise.
(2) In determining whether a commercial practice uses harassment, coercion or undue influence account shall be taken of—
(a)its timing, location, nature or persistence;
(b)the use of threatening or abusive language or behaviour;
(c)the exploitation by the trader of any specific misfortune or circumstance of such gravity as to impair the consumer’s judgment, of which the trader is aware, to influence the consumer’s decision with regard to the product;
(d)any onerous or disproportionate non-contractual barrier imposed by the trader where a consumer wishes to exercise rights under the contract, including rights to terminate a contract or to switch to another product or another trader; and
(e)any threat to take any action which cannot legally be taken.
(3) In this regulation—
(a)“coercion” includes the use of physical force; and
(b)“undue influence” means exploiting a position of power in relation to the consumer so as to apply pressure, even without using or threatening to use physical force, in a way which significantly limits the consumer’s ability to make an informed decision. LL.B (Hons) - University of Derby
LOT (Lord of Time) - University of Gallifrey

Misleading actions

5. (1) A commercial practice is a misleading action if it satisfies the conditions in either paragraph (2) or paragraph (3).
(2) A commercial practice satisfies the conditions of this paragraph—
(a)if it contains false information and is therefore untruthful in relation to any of the matters in paragraph (4) or if it or its overall presentation in any way deceives or is likely to deceive the average consumer in relation to any of the matters in that paragraph, even if the information is factually correct; and
(b)it causes or is likely to cause the average consumer to take a transactional decision he would not have taken otherwise.
(3) A commercial practice satisfies the conditions of this paragraph if—
(a)it concerns any marketing of a product (including comparative advertising) which creates confusion with any products, trade marks, trade names or other distinguishing marks of a competitor; or
(b)it concerns any failure by a trader to comply with a commitment contained in a code of conduct which the trader has undertaken to comply with, if—
(i)the trader indicates in a commercial practice that he is bound by that code of conduct, and
(ii)the commitment is firm and capable of being verified and is not aspirational,
and it causes or is likely to cause the average consumer to take a transactional decision he would not have taken otherwise, taking account of its factual context and of all its features and circumstances.
(4) The matters referred to in paragraph (2)(a) are—
(a)the existence or nature of the product;
(b)the main characteristics of the product (as defined in paragraph 5);
(c)the extent of the trader’s commitments;
(d)the motives for the commercial practice;
(e)the nature of the sales process;
(f)any statement or symbol relating to direct or indirect sponsorship or approval of the trader or the product;
(g)the price or the manner in which the price is calculated;
(h)the existence of a specific price advantage;
(i)the need for a service, part, replacement or repair;
(j)the nature, attributes and rights of the trader (as defined in paragraph 6);
(k)the consumer’s rights or the risks he may face.
(5) In paragraph (4)(b), the “main characteristics of the product” include—
(a)availability of the product;
(b)benefits of the product;
(c)risks of the product;
(d)execution of the product;
(e)composition of the product;
(f)accessories of the product;
(g)after-sale customer assistance concerning the product;
(h)the handling of complaints about the product;
(i)the method and date of manufacture of the product;
(j)the method and date of provision of the product;
(k)delivery of the product;
(l)fitness for purpose of the product;
(m)usage of the product;
(n)quantity of the product;
(o)specification of the product;
(p)geographical or commercial origin of the product;
(q)results to be expected from use of the product; and
(r)results and material features of tests or checks carried out on the product.
(6) In paragraph (4)(j), the “nature, attributes and rights” as far as concern the trader include the trader’s—
(a)identity;
(b)assets;
(c)qualifications;
(d)status;
(e)approval;
(f)affiliations or connections;
(g)ownership of industrial, commercial or intellectual property rights; and
(h)awards and distinctions.
(7) In paragraph (4)(k) “consumer’s rights” include rights the consumer may have under Part 5A of the Sale of Goods Act 1979(1) or Part 1B of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982(2). LL.B (Hons) - University of Derby
LOT (Lord of Time) - University of Gallifrey

Thanks Doctor, was hoping you would be along with some advice.

Is the best action to contact trading standards? I am still unsure if they have offered me a sub standard product or if its a bit of twisted arm selling to boost there own figures. I don't really want to have any hassel, have had a situation (still unresolved) with a mechanic that due to negelance left me with a £7k bill on my previous car. And would like to avoid anything of a similar stress.

I did ring each of the stores and there best price was no where near the price I was offered online. Each of them recommended the product highly and were able to give reasons it was comparable to the known brands so i may of just got a good deal...

Jon Freelander 2, 2014 Dynamic SD4 Santorini Black

Going to trading standards isn't about arguing over your purchase or trying to change it etc, you can keep it and carry on like nothing has happened. It's the way they do business and what you highlighted that seems to fall foul of the said regulations.

Just report your concerns to trading standards as stated here and they should investigate. They have powers to do mystery shopper type actions and catch a trader red handed so to speak LL.B (Hons) - University of Derby
LOT (Lord of Time) - University of Gallifrey

Ok thanks, I will give them a call on Monday. If I have been conned would rather protect other buyers, and if they are infact trying to provide the best advice for the customer would be nice if trading standards confirmed that.

Jon Freelander 2, 2014 Dynamic SD4 Santorini Black

If its not been delivered and signed for you can REFUSE delivery.

It will be sent back to source.

Had an issue with a mobile phone where they still sent it even though they had canceled the order.

T Terran



'The' Car For The Modern Day UK Roads ( ie all the pot holes )

'A Freelander that leaks oil is just marking its territory' - Wise words

Now a member of the FL2 'Silly Bill' Club

I am not an expert but the above advice seems exactly right to me. refuse delivery. no return postage to pay and retailer has to repay your money.

Isn't there some legal right under distance buying that covers this and allows you 7 days to change your mind without penalty?

Alternative is to do some manic research on line and if it seems ok after all accept it.

It is possible that a retailer owned by a company who imports / manufactures several makes of a bit of kit is in a position to say "haven't got that one but could recommend this other item" without actually being intent on ripping anyone off, it would help if they declared their involvement though!

Hope it works out for you whatever you decide.

I was going to refuse delivery but it states on their website that they will charge £29.99 as they get charged for the return delivery. I don't really want to take them to small claims etc so as they currently hold my money think I will just accept and see if its any good.

I know legally they won't have a leg to stand on but really don't want to go that far and based on some forum posts I found, admittedly from several years ago people had very little luck with returns.

Difficulty for me is if you ring one of there stores and ask about inphase they tell you the head units arent very good but are very cheep, the speakers are average / good for the price but the active sub woofers are the best in the market. They will also tell you they are linked to the company.

Given that its to compliment the standard LR setup it doesn't need to be high fi quality which which why I was just going for an active sub rather than a more advanced setup as I have in the past. It does also come with a two year warranty so they must have some confidence in the product.

Jon Freelander 2, 2014 Dynamic SD4 Santorini Black

The Distance Selling Regs do give a right to cancel but not a right to free return of the goods to the seller.

If goods proved to be faulty however, the seller must incur postage costs associated with the return of goods as per S.48B of SOGA 1979:

(2)If the buyer requires the seller to repair or replace the goods, the seller must—

(a)repair or, as the case may be, replace the goods within a reasonable time but without causing significant inconvenience to the buyer;

(b)bear any necessary costs incurred in doing so (including in particular the cost of any labour, materials or postage).

(3)The buyer must not require the seller to repair or, as the case may be, replace the goods if that remedy is—

(a)impossible, or

(b)disproportionate in comparison to the other of those remedies, or

(c)disproportionate in comparison to an appropriate reduction in the purchase price under paragraph (a), or rescission under paragraph (b), of section 48C(1) below. LL.B (Hons) - University of Derby
LOT (Lord of Time) - University of Gallifrey

I work for a mail order company, it costs us 20 quid for our courtier to pick up a parcel from a customer, it really anouys me that some companies make money out of postage etc. if you've paid by paypal you might have protection there, like wise if you've paid with visa I think you have some protection there to. Best way is to refuse delivery, that way you know it's been returned to sender. Black MY2013 SD4 GS Auto, Wood Company Armrest, Freel2 sticker.
Gone MY2010 Freelander 2 Manual TD4.e S, Alaska White.

Just wondered if your sub arrived and was up to standard? Could you also let us know how easy/difficult it is to fit as looking under my seats there are heater outlets for the rear seats. Where did you pick up the speaker wires for the sub etc? Thanks

Hi,

Finally got the weather to fit the sub today (oh how I miss a garage!!)

Was quite a challenge getting the wiring through the bulkhead but not a terrible job, fits perfectly under the seat and is lodged in so won't move around / rattle.

So far I am happy with the sound, its still got to have some time to bed in but am pleased with it. Compared to an old alpine one my brother has sounds much better, only have it set at 30% gain at the moment while it loosens up but already adds a nice warmth to the music that you can really feel.

Jon Freelander 2, 2014 Dynamic SD4 Santorini Black