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commando

Member Since: 27 Apr 2007
Location: lancashire
Posts: 208

2007 Freelander 2 TD4 SE Auto Stornoway Grey

winter tyres or all terrain tyres

What is the best option for winter - A/T or Winter tyres? Stornaway grey SE auto with 18" alloys

26th Nov 2013 2:09 pm

piattj

Member Since: 18 Jan 2012
Location: where the crowds aint...
Posts: 1235

2011 Freelander 2 SD4 GS Auto Baltic Blue

All things being equal, Winter tyres are designed to perform best in ... err... winter...

But whether they are better for YOU depends on what you intend to do, whilst shod in said tyres... on road, off road, on sand, across the antarctic, across Europe by autobahn.

I don't have an answer but I know that others on this esteemed forum will offer sage advice given the right info with which to work... ...

Be true to yourself. That way happiness lies...

26th Nov 2013 2:30 pm

pab

Member Since: 28 Aug 2012
Location: Now in Mid-Wales
Posts: 2007

2009 Freelander 2 TD4 XS Manual Lago Grey

For on-road winter conditions, winter tyres will be better.

All terrains do not have either the softer compounds or the sipes of winter tyres, so whilst their relatively blocky tread will give some grip on snow they are not so good on ice, etc. In fact, because their compounds tend to be fairly hard to withstand off-road surfaces they can be worse than 'normal' tyres in on-road winter conditions.

I have ATs for general/summer use, and proper winters for winter.

26th Nov 2013 2:33 pm

fisha

Member Since: 28 Aug 2012
Location: Scotland
Posts: 299

+1 for the above. I'd say that unless your needing the off-roading ability that ATs may offer you, then a set of winters will do you better for most average driving.

26th Nov 2013 2:49 pm

commando

Member Since: 27 Apr 2007
Location: lancashire
Posts: 208

I would have thought they would be better on very wet roads and snow than winter tyres? Stornaway grey SE auto with 18" alloys

26th Nov 2013 3:05 pm

pab

Member Since: 28 Aug 2012
Location: Now in Mid-Wales
Posts: 2007

No, ATs aren't that good on wet tarmac, and winter tyres are designed to work well on snow. For winter on-road you'd definitely be better off with winter tyres.

26th Nov 2013 3:16 pm

piattj

Member Since: 18 Jan 2012
Location: where the crowds aint...
Posts: 1235

Does something like the Nokian WRG2 SUV cover all bases...? A Winter / All-season tyre with some offroad capability? ...

Be true to yourself. That way happiness lies...

26th Nov 2013 3:25 pm

commando

Member Since: 27 Apr 2007
Location: lancashire
Posts: 208

What is the point of the tyres being all terrain if they are only any good in mud off road! Surely they are designed for off road in cold climates where you will get snow and ice. Stornaway grey SE auto with 18" alloys

26th Nov 2013 3:39 pm

fisha

Member Since: 28 Aug 2012
Location: Scotland
Posts: 299

My winter tyres are definitely better than my summer ones in the wet. Admittedly, the summer ones are cheapo tyres, but on a roundabout, where the summers may drift a little in very wet due to having flat tread blocks, the winters turn in well. There is more grip and I put this down to the extra sipes in the blocks of the tread. There is more individual tread sections of rubber that can flex and mould to the road surface, which is what you want in wet and in icy conditions.

As for snow, which shouldn't be considered the same as icy conditions IMHO, then you want a tread which can bite into and hold the snow a bit. The idea beng that the snow gripped inbetwen the blocks helps to grip and hold other snow on the road. This is why AT tyres sometimes fare better as their deeper open tread can grip down into snow and grab chunks of it better.

26th Nov 2013 4:03 pm

ad210358

Member Since: 12 Oct 2008
Location: Here and There
Posts: 7464

And the rubber compound Wnter tyres are of a different rubber compound to stay supple in the cold weather. p****d off with a Digital Keyboard Warrior

26th Nov 2013 5:16 pm

pab

Member Since: 28 Aug 2012
Location: Now in Mid-Wales
Posts: 2007

commando wrote:
What is the point of the tyres being all terrain if they are only any good in mud off road!

There are compromises to be made, and ATs aren't only any good in mud off road. But in order to make them good off road one has to sacrifice performance elsewhere - like wet braking on road.

There are several factors at work here:

Compound. ATs have to be hard to withstand sharp rocks, etc, off road, and to grip on uneven terrain. Tyres get harder as they get colder, so a cold AT has a pretty hard compound, whereas what one needs in winter is a soft compound. Winter tyres have a soft compound.

Tread pattern. ATs have a blocky tread with large gaps between the blocks. This gives good grip on uneven terrain, and reasonable mud clearing, but it puts less tread on the road than a road-oriented tyre and thus gives less grip on tarmac. Winter tyres also have blocky treads to give grip on snow, but are usually less blocky than ATs and rather than shedding snow are actually designed to hold it, as snow on snow grips relatively well. Road tyres have a tread pattern which is designed to clear as much water as possible whilst keeping the maximum amount of tread on the road. Unsurprisingly, therefore, they're best at gripping wet (or dry) tarmac.

Sipes. AT and normal road tyres have mostly solid tread blocks, giving them strength. This is particularly important for ATs which need to hold on while climbing over rocks, etc. But soft tread blocks work best on snow and ice, so winter tyres have lots of sipes (cuts) in the tread blocks which both soften the block and hold snow to give better grip.

Tyre design, like everything, is a compromise, and in improving one characteristic one inevitably impacts on others. A good AT like the General Grabber will perform well in all circumstances, but it won't beat a dedicated tyre in any particular area. So road tyres are better on the road, winter tyres are better in winter, mud tyres are better in the mud, etc. If you only drive on the road an AT almost certainly isn't for you, but if you need all-round capability you can't beat an AT.

26th Nov 2013 5:37 pm

ad210358

Member Since: 12 Oct 2008
Location: Here and There
Posts: 7464

What pab said p****d off with a Digital Keyboard Warrior

26th Nov 2013 6:00 pm

piattj

Member Since: 18 Jan 2012
Location: where the crowds aint...
Posts: 1235

respect

...

pab authoritative IMHO. Very helpful personally. Ta lar!

... ...

Be true to yourself. That way happiness lies...

26th Nov 2013 6:30 pm

taztastic

Member Since: 03 Feb 2011
Location: North West
Posts: 8652

I'm Considering Nokian WR SUV 3, the GR nokian winter tyre has a wet road rating of E, my Pirelli Scorpion are C, as are the WR3.
Can anybody say if the tyres are tested under the same conditions as many 'Winter' tyres have very poor wet weather performance, I have been more than pleased with the Scorpions although this set, now at 4mm on the front are getting to the end of their useful life.

26th Nov 2013 6:47 pm

ad210358

Member Since: 12 Oct 2008
Location: Here and There
Posts: 7464

I was told the ratings ie the chart with colour codings adapted from the ones on a Fridge door in Currys are supplied by the tyre manufacturer, hardly an independent assessment. p****d off with a Digital Keyboard Warrior

26th Nov 2013 6:51 pm

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