I have just returned from holiday where I discovered the following misconceptions:-

Land Rovers are bad for the Environment! - I have just driven 100's of miles in comfort with 3 kids, a labrodor, a roof box, a weeks clothes and supplies crammed in my FL2 at 70 mph and got 37 mpg - the figure I was quoted when I bought the car I got rid of a Disco Metropolis when the ECO brigade were chaining themselves to LR's fearing graffiti from a key to the side of my precious. I bought a Jaguar X type estate diesel to pacify them - it was awful! On a touring holiday with the same roof box I got 34 mpg and backache from every bump because the car was scraping the ground. This was also far short of the 47 mpg quoted when I bought the car - a figure I neve saw in the 2 years I had it

We need more lanes on motorways - I have discovered an empty lane exists on the left hand side of motorway (and I dont mean the hard shoulder) and sometimes 2 (when the middle lane is also empty) - it appears drivers are afraid of them - maybe there are evil spirits living on them.

Caravans cause traffic jams - I never saw one! I did however get stuck behind plenty of tractors that drove past parking areas and big junctions without pulling in to let the traffic jam behind pass. No offence CG! Also plenty of wagon drivers driving side by side for no apparent reason for miles completely blocking dual carriageways and 2 lane motorways - are they passing snacks to each other or chatting with the windows down? I mean they couldn't be overtaking - could they - as they are all restricted to 60 mph


Is it me or is everyone else crazy!

I'm sure I was in a huge jam on 1st march while driving to the airport and what was at the front .. a c van and its not even holiday season.

Yes tractors can be just as bad as caravans but are a tool of work not fun, Its not fair to cause tailbacks and delays for others so you can have your own fun. I always pay attention to cars behind me and pull over ASAP Its actually easier to drive a tractor with a clear road behind you as you arn't continually waiting for the guy behind to try a crazy overtaking move. When a car is behind me I end up driving at the edge of the road so he can get by without hitting me and that's where the potholes etc are. Tractors generally have no suspension and bounce badly in potholes

Trucks are restricted to 56 I think, Only some have more bhp than others so can maintain that speed uphill so end up very slowly overtaking the other less powerful truck. annoying I fully agree, I guess the overtaking driver doesn't want to loose his speed and have to change down a gear when the truck infront slows slightly.
But If you own something the chances are a truck carried it at some point so without those big annoying trucks we would have nothing! A stark truth.

Last edited by chicken george on 28th Mar 2008 7:04 pm. Edited 1 time in total

THe lorry on the inside lane is probably doing 59mph and the one overtaking doing 60mph! Have you also noticed that they always seem to start the overtaking procedure at the foot of a hill??

caravan don't have a season you can use the all year round


 Former Mod/Member, with the most post & Chicken George Arch nemesis

CG, please can you explain why is it that tractors do not get MOT'd, pay no VED and get cheap (VAT free) fuel and yet expect to be allowed to use for free the roads that the rest of us have had to pay to use. It really p*sses me off round here to be stuck behind a tractor towing an Ivor Williams Beast trailer 16 miles to market at a flatout 25mph and nobody can get passed it. Why don't they just drive from field to field and save everybody a lot of heartache. At least the vehicles that are pulling caravans (quickly or slowly) are generally taxed and they are paying duty and VAT on their fuel as well as being MOT'd.
Also around here many of the farmers are running Range Rovers, Discos and Freelanders (probably purchased as farm vehicles so getting the VAT back) yet they still use a tractor to go 16 miles to the market! How can carbon have a footprint, it has no feet?
Now driving - RRE Coupe Dynamic Lux Auto with Plus pack, Fuji White, Ebony, SD4 with tow pack
Gone - 2010MY FFRR TDv8 Stornoway and Ivory, Privacy - the pace of a TDv8 RRS, the incomparable grace of a Range Rover
Gone but will be missed- RRS Tdv8 HSE Stornoway Grey with Ebony Leather
Gone (only a little missed) RRS Tdv6 2.7SE Giverny Green/Aspen
Defender 90 County HT in Epsom Green

I have full sympathy for CG on this one, it must be worrying having to keep looking over his shoulder in case he gets rear ended!  Freelander 2 - SE
Sumatra Black - TD4 -4X4 Jack Russel in boot.

Tim, So would you on red diesel, no mot and negligable VED + the satisfaction of issing of all of your newcomer neighbours with their Audis, Volvos, Bentley Flash Gits, Porsches and various German 4*4s the size of a barn door. Oh the pure satisfaction at harvest time towing the old double coupled artic trailer laden with bales, a jam of newcomers behind and all those coming the other way having to reverse down the lanes. Now you do see some classic driving! still pining for my 3dr, no removeable hardtop, no drop glass tailgate, no roof rack, no pockets everywhere to stow all that man kit

As far a the livestock haulage goes that is a often discussed point, Is taking livestock to auction a farming operation or haulage? A wagon would obviously have to run on derv,pay VED and mot his truck in order to do the same job. It wont be long until the laws on this job and a few others are changed. But then would taking livestock from field to field be classed as farming or haulage? or should the farmer have to drove his stock down the road enmass.
Any use of a tractor for non farming tasks - going to the pub, moving furniture,hauling stone/soil for a builder, joyriding etc is not allowed under the VED,Mot,fuel duty exemptions we enjoy.
Recently a local farmer used his tractor and a mounted power brush to sweep his mud off a public road. The Customs and excise guys then fined him for using farm diesel (gas oil) while carrying out a non farming operation!.
Yes there is no VED on tractors but I must get £0 tax discs every year or face the same fine as everyone else, To prove I'm insured I suppose. But I don't actually use the roads very much.

There is fuel duty on farm diesel but at a much lower rate then DERV but seeing as though 90+% of the gas oil I buy is used whilst in a field why should I pay full duty?.
Currently gas oil is approx 54p/l if bought in bulk. (The temptation is always there to put it in the fl2)


I like to think farmers self MOT their tractors, I for one would not like to haul around 10 tonnes of grain without knowing my brakes are going to stop me. The health and safety executive can and often do spot checks on farm vehicles to ensure safety, and the police will prosecute a tractor driver with no brakes just as vigorously as they would a car driver probably more so. And like all these old exemptions the law will be changed if farmers abuse the trust given to them.

People may not agree with out cheap fuel/VED but that's what it is. I believe that as long as a tractor is carrying out a farming operation then the rates are fair. But I do think that long trips taking goods/animals to end users are not strictly speaking a farming operation, let the hauliers do that job with a truck.


Oh and to get the vat back on a car it has to be a commercial hence I have a pickup.

Thanks for the explanation m8 - I have the right to cause havoc in the City, being a Freeman and Liveryman of the City of London I am entitled to drove my livestock through the streets of said city............................ can you imagine how the ecos would whinge about the sh*t on the streets and the methane being produced if all the Freemen did that! I have never done this but recently that well known MP Diane Abbott did rent a flock of sheep and a shepherd to allow her to exercise her rights! How can carbon have a footprint, it has no feet?
Now driving - RRE Coupe Dynamic Lux Auto with Plus pack, Fuji White, Ebony, SD4 with tow pack
Gone - 2010MY FFRR TDv8 Stornoway and Ivory, Privacy - the pace of a TDv8 RRS, the incomparable grace of a Range Rover
Gone but will be missed- RRS Tdv8 HSE Stornoway Grey with Ebony Leather
Gone (only a little missed) RRS Tdv6 2.7SE Giverny Green/Aspen
Defender 90 County HT in Epsom Green

chicken george wrote:

I'm sure I was in a huge jam on 1st march while driving to the airport and what was at the front .. a c van and its not even holiday season.

Yes tractors can be just as bad as caravans but are a tool of work not fun, Its not fair to cause tailbacks and delays for others so you can have your own fun. I always pay attention to cars behind me and pull over ASAP Its actually easier to drive a tractor with a clear road behind you as you arn't continually waiting for the guy behind to try a crazy overtaking move. When a car is behind me I end up driving at the edge of the road so he can get by without hitting me and that's where the potholes etc are. Tractors generally have no suspension and bounce badly in potholes

Trucks are restricted to 56 I think, Only some have more bhp than others so can maintain that speed uphill so end up very slowly overtaking the other less powerful truck. annoying I fully agree, I guess the overtaking driver doesn't want to loose his speed and have to change down a gear when the truck infront slows slightly.
But If you own something the chances are a truck carried it at some point so without those big annoying trucks we would have nothing! A stark truth.

So do tell Tim why are you a Freeman and Liveryman of the City of London? can you not use your powers to get rid of red ken?


OK so here is a very tentative suggestion, why not meet at my farm? the vaners can sleep in their tin snails, the normals can come in my house and enjoy a nice tipple and the log stove.
What with babies birth and then the busy farming season shortly after nothing can occur until Oct but it can be done! I wont bite honest!

Ken is Mayor of a different City of London - I'm part of the proper City of London - the bit that makes all the money rather than spending it, and is populated by wealthy guys who drive gas guzzlers How can carbon have a footprint, it has no feet?
Now driving - RRE Coupe Dynamic Lux Auto with Plus pack, Fuji White, Ebony, SD4 with tow pack
Gone - 2010MY FFRR TDv8 Stornoway and Ivory, Privacy - the pace of a TDv8 RRS, the incomparable grace of a Range Rover
Gone but will be missed- RRS Tdv8 HSE Stornoway Grey with Ebony Leather
Gone (only a little missed) RRS Tdv6 2.7SE Giverny Green/Aspen
Defender 90 County HT in Epsom Green

Tim in Scotland wrote:

Ken is Mayor of a different City of London - I'm part of the proper City of London - the bit that makes all the money rather than spending it, and is populated by wealthy guys who drive gas guzzlers

I'm a Master Mariner - Our Livery hall is the white ship at Temple on the Embankment. How can carbon have a footprint, it has no feet?
Now driving - RRE Coupe Dynamic Lux Auto with Plus pack, Fuji White, Ebony, SD4 with tow pack
Gone - 2010MY FFRR TDv8 Stornoway and Ivory, Privacy - the pace of a TDv8 RRS, the incomparable grace of a Range Rover
Gone but will be missed- RRS Tdv8 HSE Stornoway Grey with Ebony Leather
Gone (only a little missed) RRS Tdv6 2.7SE Giverny Green/Aspen
Defender 90 County HT in Epsom Green