Forgive my ignorance, but does the FL2 have a fuel contamination warning? I picked up a load of diesel with water in it in my Jeep on the weekend which triggered an alarm that allowed me to save the engine. I can't recall reading about it on here and I did a search but fuel and water bring up a zillion hits. There are 3rd party devices available, any thoughts on those?

Jeep

Dont think it does  Wanted a Series 2 LR since childhood but previously owned MY16 Disco Sport HSE TD4 Auto, MY13 RR Sport Black Edition TDV6 Auto, MY10 RR Sport HSE TDV6 Auto, 2007 Freelander 1 Freestyle TD4 Soft Top, 2009 Freelander 2 GS TD4 Auto, 2007 Freelander 2 GS TD4, 2004 Disco 2 Metropolis Auto, 2002 Disco 2 GS, 2000 Freelander 1 SE TD4 SW

Still hoping for a S2 one day!

quire possibly a water sensor in the diesel filter housing, many engines have this At work
At home

"I can't always believe facts I read on the web" - Charles Dickens

winner by default of the tractor vs caravan race

The TD5 Disco and Defender had one but I don't think the FL2 has. John
07 HSE Narvick Black
Land Rover Series One
Triumph Rocket 111 (sadly gone!)

Well I need to get an after market one for my FL2. I just read on the LR forum of an FL2 with destroyed engine due to water in the cylinders, never been off road. Has to be water in the diesel I would think. Timely since it happened to my Jeep last weekend....

Because of the design of the fuel system and the higher pressures in the common rail system, the water and fuel are quite well "mixed" together and then later atomized and therefore there is no need of such a sensor.
The water separation design of the fuel filter is enough...
Those warning systems are useful in the old, "low" pressure systems.

And about that FL2. For sure it was another cause for the engine destruction than water in the fuel...
Maybe water ingress due to a cracked head...
The quantity of diesel injected inside one cylinder is around 5 milligrams/stroke at idle (0.000005 liters).
And goes up until 30-50 milligrams/stroke at cruising speed.
By comparison a water drop is about 50 milligrams!!!
So you see, even if it's only water instead of diesel, 1/10th up to one drop of water, when it's injected at over 1000 bars and atomized as a "fog", is too little quantity to inflict damage to the cylinder. And no, will not accumulate during multiple consecutive strokes, because after each stroke it will be ejected through the exhaust in a vaporised state, because remember that the air temperature at the end of the compression stroke, when fuel is injected, is over 3-400 degrees Celsius.

Just my 2 pence...

Alex:

Sorry Alex but I have heard and read the exact opposite of what you have written. The high pressure crd engines are more vulnerable to contaminated fuel...

http://www.3news.co.nz/Contaminated-fuel-c...fault.aspx

http://www.4wdaction.com.au/articles/2011/...housands-0

You can run the old diesels on any sort of vegetable oil/biodiesel but the new crd's won't handle it due to the very strict tolerances and extreme pressures.

I agree with mike, finer tolerances higher pressures, water doesnt compress in an injector pump - bang At work
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"I can't always believe facts I read on the web" - Charles Dickens

winner by default of the tractor vs caravan race

Diesel doesn't compress in the pump either
Although the water does cause lots of damage as it has no lubricating properties, this causes the damage, not the pump trying to compress it.

You may be right, I cannot do this kind of tests and see.
I was only doing a very quick reasoning based on the known facts: injected quantities, pressures and temperatures inside a modern engine. And I was talking only about water contamination.
But on those articles, they put together and talk about the water, dirt/gunge and diesel bug altogether.
They didn't talk only about water. Only that "water causes the fuel to lose its lubricating properties and the tight tolerances inside the injector pump begin to break down". Which is very true, if only water is circulating.
So it wasn't very clear what exactly made those engines to break down...

And about the fact the water doesn't compress in an injector pump...
The injector pump isn't a closed device. It has an outlet and an overpressure valve. If the water doesn't compress, when reaching max pressure, it will get out. The same with the common rail. At one of its ends is an overpressure valve.
And if we talk chemisty and phisics, then the diameters of oxigen, hydrogen and carbon atoms are 1.2x10^-10, 0.5x10^-10 and 1.54x10^-10 respectively. The water molecule is H2O and diesel something composed of many atoms, mostly carbon and hydrogen, around C10H20 - C14H26. So you see, based on this, you can say that water can "flow" more easily than fuel...

But all in all, altogether, you may be right and I may be wrong. Like George says: the above is my knowledge, so may be far removed from the truth. I will study furthermore and see...
(Sorry, George, I hope it isn't a copyright infringement... )

Quote:

then the diameters of oxigen, hydrogen and carbon atoms are 1.2x10^-10, 0.5x10^-10 and 1.54x10^-10 respectively. The water molecule is H2O and diesel something composed of many atoms, mostly carbon and hydrogen, around C10H20 - C14H26.

"A pump inhales the fuel from the tank (ELECTRONIC PUMP) and continuously sends the quantity of requested fuel towards a second pump (HIGH PRESSURE PUMP) by making it pass first through the fuel filter that purifies it from any impurity which would cause a premature wear of its components. The high-pressure pump compresses the fuel at a pressure of 1350 bar and transfers it through a connection pipe to the high-pressure accumulation duct (Rail). This tank develops the function of mitigating the pressure oscillations caused by the opening and closing of the injectors and by the continuous discharges of the pump. The fuel is then transferred from the Rail through some connection pipes to the electronic injectors, which - instructed by an electromagnetic valve –inject the correct amount of fuel directly into the combustion chamber of the engine."


"It 30,000 PSI to compress water by 10% that is equivalent to water 11.5 miles deep. Note that the deepest part of the ocean is not even 7 miles.

So for the vast majority of applications, the amount of compressibility of water is so small that it get's lost in your significant digits. At that point, you can ignore it. There are applications where you do have to factor for it."



Also the main problem is the water has no lubrication effect so the high pressure system will wear a lot faster with water in the fuel At work
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"I can't always believe facts I read on the web" - Charles Dickens

winner by default of the tractor vs caravan race

So to be sure of not losing lubrication properties, fuel needs TSO in it......  John
07 HSE Narvick Black
Land Rover Series One
Triumph Rocket 111 (sadly gone!)

This is actually more common than one would like to see actually.. I own a transport company here in sweden, and it happens to us 3 or 4 times a year when a car will stop because of so much water in the fuel (more than 60% water!).

We normally run our tanks to almost empty before refilling. If you have so much water in the fuel that it runs the risk of damaging anything, then the engine will be extremely hesitant, and a quick check of the fuel filter will confirm on the spot how much water is in the diesel (you can smell and feel that its watered down).

Stop the engine, return by any means to the place where you bought the diesel. Film yourself filling a coke bottle and show the attendant what the fuel looks like. Or call the number for customer service displayed at the pump at the unmanned station. Be a nice bloke and stop anyone else from filling up while you are on scene, show them the fuel in the plastic bottle if needed

My company uses Statoil, we have never had any problems with getting our car towed away, a substitute provided for us and the fuel system drained, cleaned and refuelled by an auth dealer.

I was actually pretty shocked the first time I saw it.. In sweden, the fuel can look very yellow and cloudy (according to the customer service guys we talk to, this is due to the addidtion of biodiesel), as they add a chemical to suspend the water in the diesel as opposed to letting it sit sedimented in the tank.. haha, as if they dont already steal enough from us, 'gripe, moan..

The only way of minimising the risk of getting duff fuel is to avoid unmanned stations, the fuel quality is less well regulated and there will most likely be nobody there to shut it down if it gets really bad.