Ghyllie wrote:

more effective would be harsher penalties but that would infringe on thier "human rights".

Have you ever noticed that 'human rights' only ever seem to protect the 'guilty party' not the victim.

What about my 'human rights' of not being affected by the actions of a 'drink driver'  2002 Honda VFR800
2002 Toyota Celica 140 Silver (mid life crisis - again!)
2007 FL2 GS Manual Army Reconnaissance Green + freel2.com sticker
2004 Toyota Celica 140 Black - Gone
2000 Toyota Celica 140 Silver - Gone
1998 Toyota Celica ST Pearl Green - Gone
1996 Nissan Primera 1.6 - Gone
1994 Rover Montego 1.6 Auto - Gone

That's because the press love to tell the public about criminals winning the day with human rights arguments. It provokes much outrage and discussion. There have been many instances where human rights have helped law abiding citizens though.

The case name escapes me (studied it over a year ago) but there was an elderly lady who needed a particular level of care in a home. They made an absolute promise that she could stay there for the rest of her life. Later they decided to close the home and when the lady and her family challenged it and mentioned the promise they made, the council took the attitude of tough luck.

They sought a judicial review of the decision and one of their grounds was human rights. Articles 6 and 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights were used. Right to a fair hearing/trial and right to respect for a private and family life, respectively. The High Court ruled in her favour and the home stayed open.

Some of the articles are qualified (such as those mentioned) which means there can be interference from a public authority if it is in the protection of the rights, freedom, morals etc of other people. Others such as Article 2 right to life are absolute rights.

Back on topic, I agree about zero tolerance on drink driving. I am in Scotland on holiday at the mo. Lovely drive across Glen Coe in the FL2 and we are in Loch Ness until Wednesday when we are off to St Andrews for 10 days.

No sign of Nessie yet but after a wee dram you never know...  LL.B (Hons) - University of Derby
LOT (Lord of Time) - University of Gallifrey

The Doctor wrote:

I am in Scotland on holiday at the mo. Lovely drive across Glen Coe in the FL2 and we are in Loch Ness until Wednesday when we are off to St Andrews for 10 days.

Love that part of the Country!

The Doctor wrote:

No sign of Nessie yet but after a wee dram you never know...

Aye, a dram will help sharpen the eye make one more atuned to it's existance, then you will be a believer but dont drive

Ghyllie oo! Shiney!
____________________________________________
55 Nissan Navara SE Black - My Toy.
08 Freelander 2 XS Santorini Black - Her Majesty's Toy.

tenet wrote:

Ghyllie wrote:

If someone is going to be driving, no alcohol at all even if you are going to drive the next morning, if someone feels that they must have a drink within about 12hrs of intending to drive they may have a bigger problem with alcohol in general having said that there is a hard core of drivers who will drink and drive regardless of what the limit is, more effective would be harsher penalties but that would infringe on thier "human rights".

Ghyllie

Are you talking a "Scottish drink" or a civilised social drink of an evening . Most folk commute to work so would have to abstain for much of their lives.

Thankfully being retired I don't have this quandary to face

Your right, it's all about being civilised and thinking ahead

Ghyllie oo! Shiney!
____________________________________________
55 Nissan Navara SE Black - My Toy.
08 Freelander 2 XS Santorini Black - Her Majesty's Toy.

The Doctor wrote:

That's because the press love to tell the public about criminals winning the day with human rights arguments. It provokes much outrage and discussion. There have been many instances where human rights have helped law abiding citizens though.

I think the only one that affects me is the lipstick.

That will really be a sacrifice.

There's 2 big problems we have that combine to make a lack of respect for the law, 1 being lack of police, 2 being punishments aren't harsh enough. (both as people have mentioned)

In New Zealand no-one drives on their phones, whilst up etc because there's so many cop cars, and the fines are so steep (I got fined £140 doing 130km/h in a 100 zone...and hadn't seen a car or any form of civilisation for 20 mins!) Whilst the policing in NZ in my view is a little extreme, at least people respect laws, and they dont waste time on paperwork and 'human rights' and crap like that.

Maybe our bobbies should go out their and see how it's done  Mine: 2012 Golf GTI Edition 35
Family's: 2009 Freelander 2 HSE TD4 Auto, Stornoway

Yorkshire - God's County

Big Dave wrote:

p (I got fined £140 doing 130km/h in a 100 zone...

By Swiss standards you got off lightly.

Here being 30kph over any signed limit is an automatic ban (usually 3 to 6mths if no accident occurred or being intoxicated through drink or drugs) plus a fine. The amount you will be fined will depend upon which Kantone you were caught speeding in - the German speaking Kantones appear to be the most expensive! And your vehicle confiscated upon which you'll pay parking fees until you get someone to come and take it away for you.

In the Kantone I live in the level of fine will depend on by how much over and above the exceed 30kph you were travelling and if you were speeding in an urban area, countryside or on a motorway. Generally speaking account for CHF10 (GBP£7) for every 1kph you are over the signed speed limit until the magic 30kph, then apply CHF20 for every 1kph above that threshold if it was on a motorway - if in an urban area expect that total sum to be multiplied by a factor of three. And in all case over the magic +30kph you will have to pay the court and administration fees as well.

So an urban speeding fine works like this: Limit 50kph - you were controlled at 85kph. Banned 6mths, plus fine of 30kph x CHF10=300CHF + 5kph xCHF20=100CHF = a sub total of 450CHF x Urban excess factor of 3. Fine payable: CHF1,350 (GBP£930approx) and don't forget your court, admin and parking costs plus you're banned from driving whilst in Switzerland

Cheaper on the motorway as speeding there is considered less dangerous than in town. And yes the same rules apply to Johnny Foreigner on holiday here - you have been warned. But I understand Finland is even more draconian on levying speeding fines

Good job I didn't get caught speeding in the FL last summer then! Least you have a decent motorway speed limit (Unlike NZ!)  Mine: 2012 Golf GTI Edition 35
Family's: 2009 Freelander 2 HSE TD4 Auto, Stornoway

Yorkshire - God's County

My advice to anyone driving in CH is to always obey the speed limit, and be observant, the limits change constantly - even on motorways and cameras are everywhere (even in tunnels) and are not indicated unlike in some countries.

And a message for those "Vanners" out there: as well as speed limits do not get caught out a) on roads where caravans are banned (the road signage will indicate this) = heavy fine, and b) you will need a motorway "vinette" for your caravan as well as your car - that's CHF40 for each

athelstan wrote:

And a message for those "Vanners" out there: as well as speed limits do not get caught out a) on roads where caravans are banned (the road signage will indicate this) = heavy fine, and b) you will need a motorway "vinette" for your caravan as well as your car - that's CHF40 for each

common sense rules in Switzerland we have a local road banned to caravans but only because its a big hill

http://wheelwobble.blogspot.co.uk/2007/07/...-bank.html At work
At home

"I can't always believe facts I read on the web" - Charles Dickens

winner by default of the tractor vs caravan race

chicken george wrote:

we have a local road banned to caravans

How much did it cost to have the signs made  2002 Honda VFR800
2002 Toyota Celica 140 Silver (mid life crisis - again!)
2007 FL2 GS Manual Army Reconnaissance Green + freel2.com sticker
2004 Toyota Celica 140 Black - Gone
2000 Toyota Celica 140 Silver - Gone
1998 Toyota Celica ST Pearl Green - Gone
1996 Nissan Primera 1.6 - Gone
1994 Rover Montego 1.6 Auto - Gone

chicken george wrote:

we have a local road banned to caravans

self policing really as the local farmers know not to try far too steep At work
At home

"I can't always believe facts I read on the web" - Charles Dickens

winner by default of the tractor vs caravan race