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tenet



Member Since: 23 Jul 2009
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United Kingdom 2015 Freelander 2 SD4 SE Auto Orkney Grey
Persecution of Motorists

Interesting letter in Honest John's column in today's Telegraph. A reader using the freedom of information act established that in 2010 Nottingham Police released over 4000 arrested felons with cautions whereas during the same period ONLY 4 motorists escaped prosecution with cautions. Where is the fairness in that Confused MY 09 GS manual in Lago Grey, Wood Co arm rest and side bumper strips - now sold.

MY 15 SD4 SE Auto Orkney Grey with colour coded Bumper Door Mouldings

Post #138245 31st Mar 2012 2:35 pm
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piattj



Member Since: 18 Jan 2012
Location: where the crowds aint...
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Wales 2011 Freelander 2 SD4 GS Auto Baltic Blue

So tell me... which is the easier target? As The Doctor has outlined, motoring offences are 'strict liability' offences and easier to prosecute. Targets, my dear, targets. ...

Be true to yourself. That way happiness lies...

Post #138250 31st Mar 2012 3:10 pm
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rjc1944



Member Since: 18 Dec 2011
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There are two "modern society" problems here - police fairness and government targetting of motorists. Both are linked to performance, attitude of so called public servants to the public, and finance.

Motorists are, like most law-abiding citizens, easy targets for the police. The once praised and trusted police force has long since ceased to be a public service and now only cares for targets, political correctness and revenue. Hence speed cameras, few beat bobbies, fewer patrol cars, more paperwork and higher profile senior offices with commensurately high salaries and comfortable pensions at an early age.

The government sees motorists as a captive mass market, rather as a farmer views his milking herd. Twisted Evil We need to use our cars - they made sure of that in the 60s with the Beeching cuts to the previously national rail service that now is just a business transporting people into and around London. Since we have no choice we also have no power. They can charge what they like, impose draconian laws that are inescapable, and spend on the road network only a minute fraction of the specific taxes they collect from us. If you have taxpayer-funded cars, houses and expenses what do you care about the real world?

We voted for them - or in most cases we didn't vote and so got what we deserved. Big Cry Read (or re-read) Orwell's 1984 to see UK 2012 in all its glory!

Never mind - we've got the Olympics and the Royal Anniversary (if you live in London, that is....... Whistle ) Ours - 2008 Stornoway Grey HSE Auto
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Post #138253 31st Mar 2012 3:43 pm
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piattj



Member Since: 18 Jan 2012
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Wales 2011 Freelander 2 SD4 GS Auto Baltic Blue

There IS a growing problem, where law abiding citizens would have once seen the Police as public servants, trusted, and not to be feared (as law abiding etc...) but as time goes on, the Police are increasingly viewed with a degree of mistrust and that's not healthy. There a a number of reasons one could point to (recent News Int engagement, feeling that motorists (especially) are an easy cash cow, stories where crims 'get away with it' and the law abiding are punished. That may be an illusion but, if so, it's one shared by a lot of people. Again, not healthy. ...

Be true to yourself. That way happiness lies...

Post #138256 31st Mar 2012 4:00 pm
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chicken george



Member Since: 05 Dec 2007
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motoring offences are clearly defined and often measured with evidence - speeding etc.

other offences are often hard to prove and the CPS neither have the funds or the mentality to prosecute, chatting to a bobby last night about the early re-release of the bloke that assulted me, he said basically juries are a waste of time nowadays, as you wont go the court unless the CPS are 100% that a magistrates or a jury will find you guilty.

His clear message - dont blame the bobbies blame the CPS At work
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"I can't always believe facts I read on the web" - Charles Dickens

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Post #138257 31st Mar 2012 4:03 pm
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piattj



Member Since: 18 Jan 2012
Location: where the crowds aint...
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Wales 2011 Freelander 2 SD4 GS Auto Baltic Blue

Not blaming the cops - it's a more complex situation - targets, blame culture, response to crime etc etc. It's an evolving situation that reflects... no, creates, the society we have built. ...

Be true to yourself. That way happiness lies...

Post #138258 31st Mar 2012 4:06 pm
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The Doctor



Member Since: 09 Jul 2010
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United Kingdom 

CPS. Many call them the can't prosecute service or criminal protection service and sometimes it does make you wonder.

Of course the press don't tell the whole story but I can give a practical example. A man goes into Tesco and picks up a bottle of Whisky and damages the electronic tag on the bottle whilst attempting to remove it. He is initially arrested for criminal damage. The CPS however go with attempted theft because as per the Criminal Attempts Act 1981 S.1, he has gone beyond merely preparatory and has attempted to commit the substantive offence.

Techincally the CPS could charge him with theft because appropriation occurs when he assumed the rights of the owner. Tesco are the owners and have the right to remove tags so technically it is theft. Luckily the sentencing for attempts is the same as the substantive offence.

The law can be very complicated but justice should not be subject to financial concerns (separation of powers and all that). The comment about the CPS needing to be 100% sure of conviction is of course exaggerated but I understand the feeling.

The thing is that these days (thanks to the CJA 2003), bad character evidence can be allowed in and predominately is. If someone has committed a number of house burglaries and been convicted before, those previous convictions can be read out to the court if he or she was on trial for burglary again. The CPS just need to make sure they are not using the bad character evidence to bolster a weak case (R v Hanson 2005).

Back to the point about motorists, it is strict liability and therefore not reliant upon the mens rea aspect so the prosecution is indeed more straightforward but there is something worth remembering. We can only be prosecuted if we have committed an offence so the best approach is not to speed (no points on my license but I plead guilty to this myself so practice what you preach Laughing ).

The police (my local force at least) are not target driven anymore and there will be guidelines as to sentencing and the lack of motorists escaping with a caution could for all we know be down to previous convictions or severity of the offence. In fact my money would be on a good number of excess alcohol offences.

More to this than meets the eye I suspect. LL.B (Hons) - University of Derby
LOT (Lord of Time) - University of Gallifrey

Post #138267 31st Mar 2012 4:35 pm
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