Same experience here. Compressed/compacted snow/ice and Wranglers and ABS/HDC helped but we still slid around a fair bit. Probably not half as much as in our 206 (we probably wouldn't have gone out in it) but the best part of 2 tonnes is going to be hard to stop.

I have just had a look at what is available on the Norwegian websites concerning m+s tyres.

Here is a translation of a recent report summery.
All Season (weather) Tyres not suitable for Norwegian conditions.
Tyres marked M+S, (Mud and Snow), are also known as all-season tyres. They are in practice summer tyres with a coarser pattern. Compound of these tires are not suitable for northern winters, and NAF states that all-season tires are not an option for Norwegian winter conditions.

And a translation from the Continental Tyre website
All Season (weather) Tyres
In practice, this is a summer tyre marked M + S (Mud + Snow) and is therefore not recommended as a winter tyre in Norway. Please note that relatively course tread patten tyres can be terrain tyres, but not winter tires, even if they are M + S marked.

Of course winter road conditions can be considerably worse here than in Britian as matt-j remarked, but I would suggest that if you are buying an extra set of tyres for winter use then be aware of the above comments. Were as M+S tyres may be fine in Britain for most conditions they are not real winter tyres. If you experiance long periods of snow and ice then consider the advantage of real winter tyres over the M+S type. The standard tyres fitted to our Freely were also marked M+S, but these are considered to be summer tyres. 2007 Freelander 2 HSE TD4 Manual with Premium Pack & Moonroof.
Stornoway Grey with Ebony Black Pleather, Clear Indicators, Body Side Mouldings etc.

Waste of money so far in this country so far, average daily temp 12'c! Still using my air con so winter is no where near

On a slightly different note NEW M+S tyres with 7mm tread will preform better in snow than Winter tyres with 3mm and for that reason I'm keeping my winter wheels in the shed until the first Icy/snowy morning.

I sold last years winter tyres with 4-5mm tread a fornight ago and bought NEW for this winter.

A mate of mine refuse's to shell out for winter tyres for his 320d but for the last couple of years has missed 4 or 5 days work cos he cant get his car off the drive.

here is a question in the mk1&2 escort days allong with the hillman and other rear wheel drive cars i am talking 60/70s you did not see a lot of folks gettin stuck in snow as much. has our driving now got that poor that the newer drivers dont know how to drive in winter i live at the start of the pennines and the standard of driving is very worrying moor so from the people not all that own vw/audi/bmw a lot of them are d heads, rainy-city
xs

bigalf1961 wrote:

here is a question in the mk1&2 escort days allong with the hillman and other rear wheel drive cars i am talking 60/70s you did not see a lot of folks gettin stuck in snow as much. has our driving now got that poor that the newer drivers dont know how to drive in winter i live at the start of the pennines and the standard of driving is very worrying moor so from the people not all that own vw/audi/bmw a lot of them are d heads,

Yes is the answer to your question, we are that bad just watched a back episode of top gear where James May went over to Finland to see why they produced so many good drivers, they went into detail about thier driving test and it's in a different class I'm surprised they would let us driver on thier roads with just a british licience my niece's idea of driving in the snow is is to just carry on regardless and if she thinks she's going to get stuck she just boots it (it's a suzuki wagon R) when I asked why she said thats what her instructor told her to do, his actual words were "just accelorate out of trouble" I worked with a lad who passed his test in papua, he drove a hundred foot along a road without crashing or killing anyone to pass and he was a better driver that most of the other drivers I had on at the time his standard of driving went down once he had to do a british test. we are generally appalling drivers which is made all the worse because we think we are good drivers. i think we should all be made to take the Finnish driving test.

Ghyllie oo! Shiney!
____________________________________________
55 Nissan Navara SE Black - My Toy.
08 Freelander 2 XS Santorini Black - Her Majesty's Toy.

bigalf1961 wrote:

here is a question in the mk1&2 escort days allong with the hillman and other rear wheel drive cars i am talking 60/70s you did not see a lot of folks gettin stuck in snow as much. has our driving now got that poor that the newer drivers dont know how to drive in winter i live at the start of the pennines and the standard of driving is very worrying moor so from the people not all that own vw/audi/bmw a lot of them are d heads,

The best rally drivers have all been Scandinavian as well well except that Frenchman of course.
The Norwegian driving test has a practical section driving an obstical course on a ice track - never tried that myself, but I guess it helps learn how to tackle those very slippery conditions.

Regarding the days of Escorts in winter - those cars had narrow tyres, and as this has been mentioned several times earlier that these cope better in slippery conditions than todays wide tyres.

In those days I was using mini's and 1100's which were far better than RWD cars, but today we need 4x4's to not get stuck  2007 Freelander 2 HSE TD4 Manual with Premium Pack & Moonroof.
Stornoway Grey with Ebony Black Pleather, Clear Indicators, Body Side Mouldings etc.

i think that diff technology has not helped on "middle of the road brands" either, especially with type of modern tyres mentioned above.

diff's seem really "light" nowadays, they are set up to put power to the wheel that has lost grip. which in a car with traction control works quite well - like on an A3

i got my wife a new 05 renault megane that diddnt have traction control which was fine - the problem was that when it came to snow it was putting the power to the wheel with no grip, tied in with 205 tyres, and no TC to regulate what it was doing

- it was useless

ASK YOURSELF A QUESTION WHY ALL OF A SUDDEN DO WE NEED WINTER TYRES IN THE UK

FOR YEARS NOW WE HAVE GOT BY WITH GOOD QUALITY TYRES ALLYEAR ROUND EVEN IN 60/70S WHEN WE HAD BAD WINTERS WE STILL USED STANDARD TYRES,

NOW ALL OF A SUDDEN WE ARE BEEING ADVISED TO BUY WINTER TYRES WHAT FOR !! OR IS THIS A CLEVER MARKETING PLOY BY THE TYRE MAKERS TO RELIEVE US OF SOME HARD EARNED CASH IN THESE TIGHT TIMES MOST ON HERE HAVE 4WD VEHICLES THE STANDARD TYRES THAT COME WITH THE CAR ARE MORE THAN AMPLE TO COPE WITH WINTER CONDITIONS OVER HERE I FOR ONE HAVE EVERY FAITH IN MY FREELANDER TO GET ME THROUGH WINTER JUST LIKE IT DID LAST YEAR WITHOUT GETTING STUCK, I FOR ONE WILL NOT BE A AND WILL USE WHAT WAS SUPPLIED BY LANDROVER AND WILL SAVE APPROX A GOOD £600 TO SPEND AT CHRISTMAS rainy-city
xs

Cars nowadays have a lot more power and a large proportion are autos, which tend to put too much power down if you aren't careful (or even if you are). Plus there's a lot more vehicles on the roads - here in S London in the last snow the problems were bendy buses, which jacknife on the slightest camber (funny how they are fine in Switzerland though) and supermarket artics, which have only one set of driving wheels for cheapness and couldn't manage even a gentle hill.
That said, back in the seventies I drove Austin A60s, and they were rubbish on snow and ice.

bigalf - I think it's just that we didn't know about them before. A friend from Italy had a hire car in the Lakes last winter and very nearly killed himself in the snow - he simply couldn't understand why the car didn't have winter tyres - said we must be crazy!

Things have changed in the last few years, we very rarely see a gritter here now and I live on the edge of town, we don't even get our bins emptied if it snows and it is flat where I am, Elf n Safety, our bins were not emptied for three weeks last December because of it yet I didn't miss a day off work. Twenty years ago we never struggled if the weather was bad, roads were gritted and every one got on with it, times have changed now, the minority get what they want, councils don't grit, Elf n Safety rules, gone to the dogs, either do something to stay mobile or stay at home.

The village I live in (76 houses) was cut off for a month during the last two winters without 4X4 or the next best thing 2wd with Winter tyres, council don't grit or plough the 3 mile country road from the nearest town, The Farmers opened a section themselves with JCBs for the milk tanker to get through but then fresh snow cllosed the road again.

In the lakes where even in Kendal there are lots of small hills last year when their had been a thaw then a quick freeze on snow free roads cars were abandoned everywhere.

Just to add my 2p worth.

We have been selling winter tyres now for quite a few years and yes the difference in the cold temp's and snow/ice with winter tyres is fantastic, very many 4x4 customers have gone down this route and we have been very busy since June fitting up second sets for users who have time and space to swap when they need to.

We also have very many customers sticking with the winter tyre all year round with NO problems and getting great mileages out of them, this is F2, D3/4 and FFRR owners and many other 4x4 makes.

I would rather drive on a winter tyre in the summer than a summer tyre in the winter.

My choice is a good All Terrain tyre all year round as this suites my requirements and if it got very bad I do have the choice from my large stock of tyres.

Most important thing is to have GOOD tread on the tyres you choose to use.  Andy.
www.ajstyres.co.uk www.ajs4x4.co.uk
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