What a bunch of tw

Just watching it now and there's a load of old folks in a village hall saying 4x4's are ruining their lives and that driving down a green lane is the equivalent of them driving through our lounge!

Fair enough, if there is a BOAT going past your garden then petition to have vehicles banned and those who drive where they aren't legally allowed or drive dangerously should be prosecuted.

These folks however want 4x4's banned altogether and I hope they fail.

Me, Lee (lmorris) and Andy (Andy131) encountered some of these idiots during our peak district outing. We all drove sensibly and stuck to legal routes (BOATS etc).

Banning all 4x4's is unacceptable. Get a life you sad fu rs LL.B (Hons) - University of Derby
LOT (Lord of Time) - University of Gallifrey

Didn't see the program - but surely if there is a BOAT at the bottom of your garden then your house has been built next to a public right of way (for ease of access?).
The majority of rights of way in places like the Peak District have been there for generations if you don't like it don't move there in the first place. Tangiers Orange - gone, missing her
Replaced by Ewok what a mistake - now a happy Disco Sport owner

Yes just watched it thought it was prejudiced against the 4x4’s. They really didn’t get a good chance to put their case forward on Camera. Mind you it didn’t help that there was some footage of Offroaders acting like complete To ers, middle of winter on top of a snow filled lane, going hell for leather trying to get through, the amount of damage and erosion that they have done is beyond belief. Common sense should tell you to stay off the tracks in those conditions unless its life or death.

There was also footage of some Motor cross type bikes going down the outside of a green lane, going through the puddles and staying on the edge, another sure way of causing erosion as eventually the track will become wider and wider. One of the first things I picked up when I started mountain biking over 15yrs ago was always stay in the middle of the track and only pull to the side to let other traffic past. I know that’s I bit difficult in a 4x4 but you have to be responsible for your actions, as they say the National Park is there for all people’s access

My work also involves the countryside and along with access issues you will always get NIMB’ism I know and have felt the anger over the years at consultation meetings, people get really passionate about it. The NP’s will have to make some well-considered decisions over the coming years.

What is happening is that groups such as Walkers, Horse Riders and Mountain Bikers who themselves have never really got on in the past, are now working together to expel motor vehicles from a large part of the country’s Countryside. They should all be working together to improve access for all types so all can enjoy their chosen pursuit.

But a 4x4 can and will damage Green lanes if the conditions are right and it only takes some wheel spin in soft conditions to start the process, the wheeling’s will fill with water, maybe freeze over winter and come spring will have got bigger due to the frost action, it’s an on-going cycle, the only way forward is responsible driving when the conditions are right. Unfortunately we will never get this as there’s still plenty of To er’s out there that think they know different.

Best thing to do is as suggested by

GREEN LANE ASSOCIATION (GLASS)
Promoting sensible driving in the countryside
DRIVERS CODE OF CONDUCT

toeknee wrote:

Yes just watched it thought it was prejudiced against the 4x4’s.

Agreed - But this programme, like all, will be biased towards the producers own feelings. If He/She hates 4x4's then the programme going out to the public will reflect this

More likely programs of this ilk are biased towards ratings, there are more ramblers than 4x4 drivers so it's a bigger audience. Nothing to do with right or wrong just bigger ratings.

The problem with reasoned debate in this instance, is that one side are not reasonable but are very vocal. If the rights of way need to recover from over use, then ban them from all use, surely they would recover faster

Your never going to win against predudice ToeKnee, but I for one am glad that you continue to try.
If only because my response would be less measured and certain to fail.  Tangiers Orange - gone, missing her
Replaced by Ewok what a mistake - now a happy Disco Sport owner

I have recorded it and haven't watched it as yet, but fully agree with toeknee's comment. I am both a rambler and have enjoyed the odd green lane and yes the more vocal of the groups are the extremists that want the countryside for themselves and will trespass without consideration.

My wife was walking the 'Mary Towneley Loop' alone on a bridleway section and was completely drenched in mud by an illegal 4x4 not slowing, and even stopped to remonstrate with her for not getting out of the way in time. She felt threatened and rang me at home and I called Manchester police who sent out a car to the co-ordinates. Credit to them, one was in the area and was waiting for him as he accessed the road.

It's a situation that will never be accepted by both sides unless the extremists of both groups wind their necks in and accept there are places we can and can't go and there are places we can all share, and when erosion is evident then neither party should have access until it has recovered.

Sadly it will never happen as reading Andy's comments he has a dislike for ramblers and if I am truthful I don't want to encounter any vehicle intrusion while I'm walking, so while we are both around there will always be the vocal ones of the groups.

I enjoy both, but I don't want the other around when I'm doing it, now there's twisted logic.

Fortunately I can receive here in Switzerland UK broadcaster's programmes (I want to watch the cricket and rugby) so I was able last night to see the programme on my birth place the Peak District National Park.

Previous posters have made some excellent observations: Andy 131 - erosion recovers faster by banning all users. Toeknee's observation of the fools displaying their ignorance of how to correctly drive/ride a green lane, poor 4x4 driving skills and inexpedient winter ground conditions.

What must be understood by all is that the Isle of Britain is over populated and the available space for its population's recreational activities is proportionally decreasing year on year. Unless and until all parties recognise that dilemma no sustainable workable solution will be found to resolve the conflicts of interest examined by last night's programme.

The UK's National Parks' constitution declares they exist in part to provide access to all of this nation's inhabitants without favour to any special interest party. As recreational pursuits have evolved over the last 60yrs since the founding of the national parks, the challenge to meet that original brief has become a fastidious challenge worthy of the minds of Aristippus and Aristotle.

Maybe "Green Lanes" should remain for the original users for whom they were designed: bipeds and quadrupeds. And, that motorised vehicles have land set aside for them (access to which by tarmaced public road) in which to demonstrate and vent their desire to roam over field and bog. The environmental sustainability of these sites could then maintained by rotation as in the fashion of good farming husbandry.

Entrenchment, partisan ranting and the disenfranchising of the "perceived rights" of others will only lead to lasting conflict, enrichment of barristers and an imposed no win solution for all protagonists.

EYorkshire wrote:

....... Sadly it will never happen as reading Andy's comments he has a dislike for ramblers and if I am truthful I don't want to encounter any vehicle intrusion while I'm walking, so while we are both around there will always be the vocal ones of the groups.

I enjoy both, but I don't want the other around when I'm doing it, now there's twisted logic.

I think you underestimate me I have a deep deep hatred of ramblers and horses/riders - but hey we all like to use the same space, I am willing to stop or slow down as nessesary to allow others to pass, turning off the engine so as not to cause offence or scare dumb animals. right up to the point were some gives me lip or walks down the side of my car using his/her rucksak as a scouring pad.

I drive a Freelander so extreme driving in unsuitable places will just get me stuck, so why / how would anyone driving a FL2 tear up the environment?
Yet I still get abuse whenever I meet a group of ramblers - twos or threes usually are civlised even sociable, maybe they should be limited to groups of no more than four adults?
Never had a cross word from motorcyclists.
Best for me would be to charge everybody for access, this could be used to properly maintain the byeways, how about £1 per rambler, £2 for motorcyclists, and a fiver per car - gets my vote Tangiers Orange - gone, missing her
Replaced by Ewok what a mistake - now a happy Disco Sport owner

Thing is, every group of amenity users (including residents) will have its proportion of tossers. It's unfortunate that the tossers in 4x4s have much more power at their disposal to a) cause damage b) put the back of others up.

I'd be in favour of requiring licensing to go off-road, were it not for the fact that there's very little enforcement as it is and it would require enforcement to be of any use.

Around here it's not so much 4x4 drivers it's lads on trail (motor) bikes that put people's back up. Brian

MY11 FL2 SD4 GS
Extras to same spec as XS apart from the Satnav, plus Xenons.
Ipenema Sand, Ebony.

Andy131 wrote:

I think you underestimate me I have a deep deep hatred of ramblers and horses/riders - but hey we all like to use the same space,

Most greenlanders be that bike or car, believe we can co-exist,

All ramblers I have met in my travels [expect those who were not rambling at the time in front of me or met through this forum] believe they have the right above all others and have a mightier than thou attitude,

and those who ride horses anywhere on the road are a menace, especially when their glue stick on legs can't even walk in a straight line and jumps around the road, or everywhere, I pick it up when i walk the dogs, so why shouldn't they

edited to be more explanatory in my use of term of ALL Former Mod/Member, with the most post & Chicken George Arch nemesis

Last edited by npinks on 4th Nov 2011 11:19 am. Edited 2 times in total

npinks wrote:

All ramblers believe they have the right above all others and have a mightier than thou attitude,

and I take offence at that, I am a rambler and I don't have that attitude.

then 99.9% do in my opinion But obviously not you Dave


edited: to show i didn't mean EY was one of those i was referring to Former Mod/Member, with the most post & Chicken George Arch nemesis

Last edited by npinks on 4th Nov 2011 11:17 am. Edited 1 time in total

Fair enough, nobody on here knows me well enough to tar me with the same brush as you're painting all ramblers to be, I'm an individual with my own mindset.

My final comment on this is those who spout extremist comments can get

I am with EYorkshire on this, I go mountain biking, fell running, orienteering and rambling, I love the country side I don't want to ban anybody from getting pleasure from it, while Mountain Biking in Swaledale I arrived at the start of a green lane at the same time as an impressive convoy of Land Rovers (Defenders and Range Rovers) I thought brilliant I can watch these guys negotiate the ford across the river, but the guy in the lead car was a gentleman and insisted I go first. This was a responsible group who were quite happy to give way and drive in a responable manor, its the minority that are going to get lanes shut to traffic, insisting on ploughing on despite the damage they cause (as in the one churning the snow covered track in the program ) I have received abuse from ramblers as a cyclist, although 2 skinny tyres cause less damage than a gang of heavy booted ramblers, some ramblers think that the country side is just for them. Its hard to see a solution to keep everybody happy perhaps all ramblers should try some responsible 4x4 driving and all 4x4 drivers should try some tranquil rambling, both camps might find a new pastime they enjoy. What if there were no hypothetical situations?

Last edited by Gunfa on 31st Oct 2011 7:54 pm. Edited 1 time in total