athelstan wrote:

razmabaz wrote:

I find it incredible that it is (I beleive) illegal to use water cannons in this country.

~clip~ It is indiscriminate in use and cannot be guaranteed not to harm the innocent.

' No drug, not even alcohol, causes the fundamental ills of society. If we are looking for the source of our troubles then we should not test people for drugs, we should test them for stupidity, ignorance, greed and the love of power. '

So much for do-gooders and the nanny state. Another member of the failed FL2 clutch/DMF club, twice.

spikynorman wrote:

' No drug, not even alcohol, causes the fundamental ills of society. If we are looking for the source of our troubles then we should not test people for drugs, we should test them for stupidity, ignorance, greed and the love of power. '

I like the idea of them being sprayed with something that colours them. Preferably in a rediculous colour for a very long time. Make their skin turn blue and their hair go pink or something. Then everybody knows what they did long after the facts.

razmabaz wrote:

Innocent? Have you been watching any of the news items? Doesn't seem to bother the French.

Looks like a 40ish old man who tried to put out a fire near some flats was beaten to the ground last night, absolutely discusting!! Former Mod/Member, with the most post & Chicken George Arch nemesis

npinks wrote:

Looks like a 40ish old man who tried to put out a fire near some flats was beaten to the ground last night, absolutely discusting!!

Athelstan:

Trying to limit my words for the sake of brevity and saving of my time it is never easy to express totally what one may need to wholly say.

Nevertheless, justice is high on my agenda and to achieve that one needs to capture/apprehend the perpetrators and, of course, bring to book. I would never condone hosing a shop entrance and tainting the innocent along with the guilty. However, watching, just briefly in Manchester, the antics and actions of the mindless thugs it easy to see that there were no innocent victims in shot. None of this would happen (I feel anyway) if a tougher stance was taken by the authorities, perhaps even imposing a curfew. Get the louts off the streets!

Enough from me ... just fed up with the do-gooders protecting mindless idiots at the expense of the VERY great majority which go to make up the law-abiding populous! It is sad that innocents get tainted and caught up in this but I feel that it is a price civilisation sometimes has to bear for the greater good. (There were 10,000+ of innocent French civilians who lost their lives in the liberation of Normandy and for each and every one I feel a very sad loss although I was not even born then).

Ok ... now enough from me! Freelander 1 TD4 HSE - gone, 2 weeks after the Cat.Converter!
Freelander 2 TD4 SE Auto MY08 - Santorini black

Perhaps the events of the past few day will awaken middle England to the fact that our Police and schools teachers have been emasculated by a minority liberal cadre. The Police in previous times would have quelled (I suspect) the initial outbreak by using robust means but due to :

1. Lack of leadership
2. Political will
3. Fear of retribution by trial from the left wing media including the BBC

failed to do so.

Interestingly I have not heard a word from Ms Chakrabati(?) or any other liberal human rights supporter,only Ken Livingston trying to make political capital out of the whole debacle - shame on him and any other politician who tries the same tactic.

I suspect, but hope I am wrong, that some of the perpetrators will receive lighter sentences than the guy who threw shaving foam at Murdoch. Again that whole debacle was elevated into a situation that does/did not deserve the crushed careers of senior police officers nor the attention that it attracted.

Tenet MY 09 GS manual in Lago Grey, Wood Co arm rest and side bumper strips - now sold.

MY 15 SD4 SE Auto Orkney Grey with colour coded Bumper Door Mouldings

razmabaz wrote:

athelstan wrote:

razmabaz wrote:

I find it incredible that it is (I beleive) illegal to use water cannons in this country.

~clip~ It is indiscriminate in use and cannot be guaranteed not to harm the innocent.

Innocent? Have you been watching any of the news items? Doesn't seem to bother the French.

i hope everyone takes a look at the websites showing the morons who have been rioting and report anyone who they know,

Just been looking on the suns, website, to be honest i won't know anyone, and they all sort of look similar, hoodies up, grinning as they are having such a good time Former Mod/Member, with the most post & Chicken George Arch nemesis

I don't know the answer to these problems other than more robust policing, but this is a very good piece of writing.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/20...of-looting What if there were no hypothetical situations?

I don't have the answer to what is basically a very small segment of local communities intent on theft and criminal damage. Such an answer my well include a vigorous police response, an unambiguous political directive, disciplined parental guardianship, teacher mentoring, meaningful sentencing plus plus plus. However what is clear is that it takes only a tiny group of antagonistic miscreants to have an effect upon society greater and more disruptive than their cadre warrant.

Curfews are in practice unworkable - the mob will simply move across the road from for example Enfield into the next Borough where no curfew exists. And in a city of 11 million citizens is impossible to lock down without probably sending the whole of UK Constabulary into London - permanently - leaving the rest of society unprotected.

The Met have done field trials using water cannon on London's streets at 03:00hrs some years ago and found that the vast amount of collateral material damage and the potential to cause serious injury to the person made by their use rendered that instrument impractical and unworkable for the capital's streets. London, or even Birmingham, Manchester etc., are not war zones as was the case in Belfast or Londonderry where you had two communities intent on killing each other. The present situation is not sectarian driven with the goal of religious genocide re N.Ireland.

To come to a sustainable solution to the current problem of disorder it is important not to confuse innocent loss of human lives and serious injury in time of global conflict with that of the normally peaceful byways of England. The state is not at war with its inhabitants and neither are they, the inhabitants, engaged in an armed insurrection. The solution must not include innocent victims.

Unless and until you have a pandemic culture of respect embedded in the whole fabric of society it is no good the right bleating about the soft liberal lefties, or conversely, the evangelist left scolding the hard right's "hang'em" doctrine.

Inclusion in society is the key. Disenfranchise any element of your community and that pot will boil over at anytime when they, the disenfranchised decide it is time to do so.

The nation requires clear unified political leadership and funding, a police "force" (not service) focused on crime prevention not detection, substantive sentencing, parental control & accountability, and the acceptance from all local NGO's, schools, employers etc that they must play a role in mentoring the youth of society that crime does not pay - study and hard work rewards.

I don't see why some of the police couldn't carry water shooters ( simialr to kiddies water guns ie super soakers ) that would have a great range, filled with an identyfiable dye, ultra violet, that can't be washed of the skin for 6 months and they could pick out a lot of the trouble makers and identyfy them.
I had enough of all the doo gooders years ago that says we cant do this and that ! its just leads eventually to a free for all of scociety.

It was clearly nothing more than sheer vandelisim because if they were blaming cuts and spending I'm sure the new Olympic Statdium would of been targeted as that has had so m¬uch money poured into it