Hi fujifreel. I didn't see a link and I didn't search, but I'm guessing it's the old "Put the seatbelt in & out 11 times" trick. Thanks. Amazing how a sound like that can distract you!

I've added another Vid to YouTube that helps demonstrate the difference between having traction control ON and traction control OFF in the sand. I was advised by the Sales Rep (former Service Mgr) to turn traction Control OFF. It's quite amazing what a difference it makes. I love the Traction Control tech in the FL2 but it's not something you want in sand, particularly if it's deep. In this Vid, I tried going up the dune with TC on and after getting stuck, tried again without it. I intentionally tried to keep the momentum the same to gauge the difference.
My conclusion re-affirms what the Rep has said (across FL2, Disco4 and RR) which is to turn TC OFF when in sand. Given the 'smarts' of the LR system, one might have concluded it would have been programmed in - but then again, quite a few members like to use "Sand" mode on the bitumen!


This is just another "sand Mode" scenario and whilst the FL2 makes it look easy, there are a few spots where sinking to the belly would have been quick and devastating.

(warning this one is long).

Spotted another vid on YouTube - this one is embarassing though (not me). It looks to me the driver has engaged "Sand" mode - mud and water flying off all 4 wheels in every direction. There appears to be no traction control at all (all models do have it don't they???).

Oops - forgot link:-

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Any 4x4 will behave the same way in that situation... The difference is made by the tires.

And yes, all FL2s have traction control. In addition, some have Terain Response, some don't. But all have traction control.
Traction control (TC) will try to "uniformize" the rotational speed of all wheels in order that the wheels that loose traction to be slowed down by ABS intervention by braking them. Therefore, through differential(s), the torque will reach the wheels that have grip.
In that muddy situation, or in any other situation when you put the car on the belly, all wheels will rotate with the same speed. So, in TC mind, the car is just doing fine, rolling... No need to intervene.
BUT!!!!!
In the same time, the DSC system sees that all wheels are spining and, in the same time, the torque generated by the engine is ineficient used and isn't put on the road. Wheels in air or sliping, remember, so no effort for the engine.
This will instantly translate in a masive/general sliping situation, and DSC (again, DSC system, not TC) will reduce the engine speed/torque in order to gain grip.
But this reduction in engine speed isn't always a good thing, because sometimes you need a little tire spin in order to dig (in muddy situations) for a solid grip.
This is why they say that in some situations you need to disable DSC, to allow the tires to spin freely and engine to rev happy.
But then another bad thing arrive sometime... You can dig too much and suspend the car on the belly...
In soft sand you also need, sometimes, to disable DSC, because the wheels can slip a little and any reduction in engine speed/torque (by the DSC) will translate in a loss o momentum and sinking into the sand...
Decisions, decisions... It's sometimes difficult even for a human, what to say about an AI...
So, in conclusion:
1. Traction control acts on the individual wheels, by braking them, in order to transfer the torque to wheels that have grip.
2. DSC acts on the engine speed/torque in order to reduce torque for not loosing grip.
3. You cant disable TC, you can only disable DSC.
In fact the DSC (Dynamic Stability Control) has a much more complex function and acts on other ocassions too. It has rotational and lateral acceleration sensors and also can command the ABS to brake individual wheels during dynamic/lateral splippage. And also reduce engine output to overcome the lateral glides, understeers and oversteers.

And of course, there is Terrain Response, which is in fact only a collection of different maps to optimize and adjust (increase or decrease) the response/sensibility of those two, TC and DSC, to suit that selected/particular situation.

Just my 2 cents and sorry if I seem to be pedantic...

Last edited by alex_pescaru on 27th May 2011 8:47 pm. Edited 1 time in total

jaksbak@freel2 wrote:

Oops - forgot link:-

&feature=related

Alex, Have you ever considered taking over Land Rover customer services or, better still, setting up as a dealer? If so, please come to Australia - you are a gem!

A few weeks ago on Boambee Beach up at Coff's Harbour. It's nice when the tide is going out

Click image to enlarge

Click image to enlarge

You have a beautiful country, indeed.
An pretty good 4x4 clubs and people with a lot of knowledge. In fact part of my 4x4 background and techniques were learned reading some of your forums, websites and youtube clips.
And yes, I've considered, some time in the past, to come to that part of the world, but not quite Australia, but New Zeeland...

Nahhh, don't go there, it is full of New Zealanders!  1st time FL2 owner. 2007 SE i6 in Tambora Flame.

[img]https://www.freel2.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=12812&pos=1

despite reading a few different posts, uploading photos is far from easy. Don't know if this is going to work, but if so, it's a photo from a quarry not far from town.[/img]

Trying something different . . . .

Well, I see it worked, so I added another. It's an overly complicated process to add a photo to a forum ! ! ! !

The following photos was from a quarry just out of town. The photos don't do justice to the angle of the slope over this motocross jump. It is such a steep decent that the bottom scrapes massively going over the edge, so it was was nice and slow. This quarry was a great spot to test all of the new electronic gizmo's on the FL2 and I'd have to admit that I couldn't have done many of the things I did in this auto SD4 in a "more serious, low ratio 4WD". It more or less went everywhere I pointed it, slow, fast, stop, start etc. The only things that consistenty stopped my progress were deep ruts and excessively sharp edges where the SD4 simply got stuck on it's belly.
An awesome ride really, in luxurious comfort to boot. Since I had been out to the pit a few days earlier, I knew where I was going and what my limits were, but today's passenger didn't and he absolutely shat his pants on many of the challenges. Good for a laugh!

Great pics jaksbak@freel2. It looks like a remote control car with those angles

Excellent pics You are right, the pics never do justice to how steep or difficult some of the tracks are. Yours actually look steep and difficult so they must have been ball tearers in the flesh
It's amazing where these cars will go. I wish I could raise mine up around 3" with air suspension for some rutted crawly places and then drop it down again for the nice ride on the tar. Wouldn't need big wheels either because no pumpkin diff in the centre of the axle.