I have just try tonight my fl2 on the snow (about 10 cm on the road)...and it was great, a lot of fun. I'm currently fitted with the original tires (michelin latitude HP tour) and it's ok for normal snow condition.

But tonight I was coming down the mountain and on a steep road it's start to slip and I really felt the weight of the car ..Happily, the car finally stop and I manage to go down slowly...

Those tires are not made for snow, which I already knew..but I was too exited of driving my baby out to the wild weather...

Otherwise, the car feel great on snow and the snow mode seem to work pretty well...but watch out for steep road

I'm thinking of getting the following snow tires : Nokian WR SUV - what do you think about it ??

agin wrote:

I have just try tonight my fl2 on the snow (about 10 cm on the road)...and it was great, a lot of fun. I'm currently fitted with the original tires (michelin latitude HP tour) and it's ok for normal snow condition.

Very jealous of you agin... wish it would snow like that in England we are lucky if we get 5cm all winter

In snow you should check that the DSC is disabled (default is enabled) as well as the snow setting of the TR selected, it makes a big difference if it is as it allows you to wrench the wheel backwards and forwards and to play the throttle to get traction without the electronics cutting the engine power! Same in mud and on sand. How can carbon have a footprint, it has no feet?
Now driving - RRE Coupe Dynamic Lux Auto with Plus pack, Fuji White, Ebony, SD4 with tow pack
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i was taught on snow, wet grass etc on my LRE

To brake until the ABS kicks in and then release the brake slightly, made a big difference on the stopping distance

DO NOT USE ON NORMAL ROAD CONDITIONS

Tim in Scotland wrote:

In snow you should check that the DSC is disabled (default is enabled) as well as the snow setting of the TR selected, it makes a big difference if it is as it allows you to wrench the wheel backwards and forwards and to play the throttle to get traction without the electronics cutting the engine power! Same in mud and on sand.

Errr why???

The whole idea of TR modes is to limit wheelspin. Disableing the DSC will result in lost traction. Only to be done when in sand or a bit of brute force is needed to get up a very muddy bank.

If you have DSC on on snow, this will result in progressive lose of all power and you'll stop. Each time dsc detects slippery conditions it takes some power off the wheels. On snow this happens a lot, so you'll eventually stop. Hence, I think Tim is right, you have to take it off. My question is: why terain response snow setting does not do that automatically? Possibly 'cause it's not just for snow? I guess...!

agin wrote:

I'm thinking of getting the following snow tires : Nokian WR SUV - what do you think about it ??

highbridgeflyer wrote:

Errr why???
The whole idea of TR modes is to limit wheelspin. Disableing the DSC will result in lost traction. Only to be done when in sand or a bit of brute force is needed to get up a very muddy bank.

Tim in Scotland wrote:

highbridgeflyer wrote:

Errr why???
The whole idea of TR modes is to limit wheelspin. Disableing the DSC will result in lost traction. Only to be done when in sand or a bit of brute force is needed to get up a very muddy bank.

Highbridgeflyer here is my understanding of how DSC works as explained to me on 4 different LRE training courses by the guys at Land Rover.

DSC is there to stop you rolling the car, it isn't a traction control- you have that as well as DSC.
DSC monitors the brakes, throttle, steering and traction control (which is why it is also fitted to most modern 2WD drive cars as well as 4x4's) and there are also a couple of accelerometers. somewhere on the car too. If the computer for the DSc sense that you are doing what it thinks are panic maneouvres - braking very hard at the same time as wrenching the steering from side to side or loosing traction and the car might be weaving from side to side thus upsetting the accelerometers then it thinks you are about to crash and need to stop asap, so it cuts the engine power but doesn't stop it. If however you are driving in sand, mud or snow then often if you loose traction you come on and off the throttle hard, wrench the steering to use the tyre sidewalls to try to get grip and also trigger the TC then it will think the same thing...................... the last thing you want in those conditions is for the computer to suddenly cut the engine power, so you have the ability to disable the DSC. Car makers have realised that in snowy conditions in a 2WD car you may want to do the same thing which is why the sensible makers also give you an inhibit switch for the DSC in their cars. There are plenty of makers who don't give you this option and their cars will be totally useless in snow! That is why the DEFAULT for DSC is always on and you have to physically switch it off and not the other way round - it is a safety device not a traction device

I can confirm, the TR system does change the senitivity of the Tranction Control and DSC, even the Land Rover Experiance guys said to me in certain situations to gain more grip it is advisable to turn off the DSC.

They also did say in snow/sand condtions they wished the ABS was disabled as it Stops the build up of the snow/sand in front of the wheels when breaking and does not stop as quick due to this Former Mod/Member, with the most post & Chicken George Arch nemesis

npinks wrote:

I can confirm, the TR system does change the senitivity of the Tranction Control and DSC, even the Land Rover Experiance guys said to me in certain situations to gain more grip it is advisable to turn off the DSC.

They also did say in snow/sand condtions they wished the ABS was disabled as it Stops the build up of the snow/sand in front of the wheels when breaking and does not stop as quick due to this

Viking

What I was referring was that the head LRE instructor told me and demonstrated that you can stop alot quicker on wet grass/snow, and sand by the ABS not activating

They got me to drive as fast as i could under hard acceleration then brake as hard as i could at a certain point, when the ABS kicked in it took alot longer to stop.

When I did the same, but braked so the ABS was just kicking in and release slighty, brake more, holding it just before the ABS kicked in the car stopped alot quicker that the first test.

He then went on to say by the ABS wheels rotating the build up of snow/sand did not happen and on these type of condition only would not stop you as quick as with snow/sand building up in front of the tyre as there is less braking fritction.

I then asked if the Sand setting altered the ABS sensitivity, we did the test again and it didn't.

He said to brake as hard as i could on dry roads or if the half the wheels are on solid ground as the TC DSC will take over bringing you to a stop.

We then went on the drive the car in a tight circle, foot to the floor (Auto transmission), with GRASS/SNOW setting on, the DSC was working overtime, and we kept going in a tight circle.

We then did the same in SAND (i think) and it was going in a circle until the back end throwed itself out and the car went it to uncontrollable spin (uncontrollable as i really never thought it was going to do it)

This showed how much the DSC water watered down in the SAND setting, though I am not sure to exaggerate it if he turned off the DSC after a few circles.

I WOULD OBVIOUSLY WISH ANYBODY READING THIS TO NOT TRY THIS IN THERE OWN CAR ON AN OPEN ROAD, I DID THESE ON A LRE AND UNDER CONSTANT SUPERVISION IF SAFE SURROUNDING.

IF YOU WISH TO TRY OUT WHAT HAS BEEN WRITTEN, PLEASE PLEASE DO IT ON YOUR NEXT SERVICE IN THE COURTESY CAR , BUT SOMEWHERE SAFE Former Mod/Member, with the most post & Chicken George Arch nemesis

npinks.

I cannot answer for grass or sand, as I have no experience with that. However, I have years and years of experience driving on snow and ice.

If you drive on snow (and ice) without ABS and brake as hard as you can, the wheels will lock, and you are just sliding ahead with absolutely no control. You will loose all kinds of traction, and you are in the hands of the law of physics.

Before ABS was introduced, we all learned that we should "pump-brake" if sliding. I.e., braking gently, letting the breaks up from time to time, to avoid the wheels from locking. The worst that could happen, was that the wheels was locked.

Now ABS does this for us. Preventing the wheels from locking, enabling us to control the car.

I must admit I do not understand the "building up of snow" in front of the wheels. Perhaps with sand, but I cannot recall ever having seen or experienced that with snow. And I have driven in some really deep snow.

However, rally-drivers driving on snowy, icy roads in up to 200 km/h turn ESP, ABS etc on and off as it suits them enabeling them to slide around a curve with maximum speed. The angle of the car on the road is not what you would see in regular driving. The back of the car slides out on purpose. Also many young kids does this for fun. They turn off the ESP in order to manage this.

Unless you are a rally-driver on snow & ice, I cannot really think of any sircumstance where it is adviseable to turn off the ABS.

But I am always willing to learn new wisdom.

But I think the film I attached in my previous post is supporting what I am saying. In my view, this film shows reality. (also, I think this film must have been shot in Norway, as the winter-conditions were very familiar) 2008 Freelander 2 HSE TD4 Automatic, Caspian Blue, Alpaca, Moon roof, Exclusive pack.

I need to defend Npinks strongly at this point ....I too had been told when working for Audi that the ABS is to be switched off in snow as you will stop quicker as the snow builds 'a brick' under the front wheels in a lock up situation, rather than with ABS active which will keep the wheels spinning as soon as a lock up of the wheels is felt and all you do is keep rolling for 3 miles unable to skid to a stop. In the east of England we do not get much snow and when we do get 1" the M11 shuts for three days remember everybody So from a practical experience point of view ...we have none and ask Viking on his experiences...however I feel the option would be nice as snow in Denmark, Norway and Sweden is different to the snow we get here in Englad as we are considerably warmer and the snow is much less powdery, but much wetter.

Npinks

The "pump braking" you describe is what used to called in the pre ABS days Cadence Braking - apply the brakes until the wheels are just about to lock then release and repeat, it took a huge amount of practise and you really had to know your car quite well to be able to feel when the wheels were about to lock!

By switching off the DSC you will not switch off the ABS, TC or HDC (if it is switched on) How can carbon have a footprint, it has no feet?
Now driving - RRE Coupe Dynamic Lux Auto with Plus pack, Fuji White, Ebony, SD4 with tow pack
Gone - 2010MY FFRR TDv8 Stornoway and Ivory, Privacy - the pace of a TDv8 RRS, the incomparable grace of a Range Rover
Gone but will be missed- RRS Tdv8 HSE Stornoway Grey with Ebony Leather
Gone (only a little missed) RRS Tdv6 2.7SE Giverny Green/Aspen
Defender 90 County HT in Epsom Green