heliosuk wrote:

You need to be carefull with the rim clearence to caliper as I think that by going from 18 inch to 16inch you cant use stick on weights for balancing on the inside of the rim.

If they're the LR standard 16" rims, the ballance weights can be fitted to the inside without problems, trust me, I'm a 16" owner  We Don't Care About Pot Holes !!

W.D.C.A.P.H. wrote:

If they're the LR standard 16" rims, the balance weights can be fitted to the inside without problems, trust me, I'm a 16" owner

Cheers W.D.C.A.P.H. good to know!

W.D.C.A.P.H. wrote:

If they're the LR standard 16" rims, the ballance weights can be fitted to the inside without problems, trust me, I'm a 16" owner

Not that I'm qualified to question your 16" ownership prowess WDCAPH ( ) I can assure you that by fitting 16" LR rims on an 18" specified vehicle is not recommended. The clearance falls well outside of the specification allowed. It is true it is possible to fit depending on the type of weight but again leaves insuffcient clearance. The centre of the weight has to be fitted within 5 degrees of the balance point and then within a set length.

No worries mate, I see where you are coming from. Mines an 's' so 16s as standard, that's the only point I was making. I didn't realise there would be a different suspension / geometry set-up per vehicle spec type. Seems rather strange, but I'm not arguing buddy. The weights I have fitted are the stick-on ones, so no overhang as you'd get with the rim clip-ons. We Don't Care About Pot Holes !!

heliosuk

Perhaps you could tell me if I'm missing something here. As far as I'm aware W.D.C.A.P.H.'s FL2 and mine are basically the same car, bar his being an 'S' and mine a 'HSE'. I believe the suspension, hubs, brakes, their setup and clearances are the same between our models, the only difference being the 'HSE' upgrades along with the different rims, but with the tyres making up the obvious difference between overall wheel diameters to within +- 2.5%.
Now if I decide to put his wheels on my vehicle and if he already has 'stick-on' weights attached to his, then why would the same weights need to be removed when attached to mine? I understand why LR would issue a statement regarding clearances with downsized rims from a third party, but not when the downsizing involves the OEM wheels from the same vehicle!

Please explain if I'm missing something obvious here?

The geometry would be the same if the offset of the wheel is the same which is likely to be the case if 16" OE are fitted. There is though a difference in the disc and caliper sizes between petrol and diesel, the petrol being slightly bigger. However 16" are not an option on HSE which is probably for a reason, i.e. the caliper wheel balance weight problem. Therefore if your HSE is a diesel then it should work I would think. Hope that helps.

Cheers Heliosuk

That's what I was thinking after reading about others who have done the same thing with 16in rims over winter and when playing off road.

I should be getting some tyres fitted soon, so I'll keep this updated!

Thanks to everyone who contributed to the thread and helped make my mind up about the rims and tyres.

Just a bit of an update for anyone else who might decide to replace the standard 18in 'HSE' alloys with standard 16in 'S' alloys for the winter or off road sessions.
The rims fit perfectly allowing for 10-12mm of clearance between the back of the spokes and the front face of the brake calliper, but it gets a little tight between the outer edge of the calliper and inner circumference of the rim, leaving just 4-5mm of clearance. Not enough clearance for the stick on weights most garages fit when balancing, so go for the old 'knock-in' type weights for the front face of the rims. Stick on weights will be fine for balancing the inner rim 'face'.

For various reasons I decided to go for these tyres after doing a fair bit of research on the web and with the prospect of the NEW General Grabber AT tyre not being available until the spring. I'm waiting until the temperatures drop before I swap the 18in rims for the 16in, but I'll report back when I've had chance to compare the Goodyear Wrangler AT/SA tyres with the standard Pirelli Scorpion's in ice/snow, or whatever else I may find myself in.

What might be of interest to some is: I phoned my local LR service centre and spoke to the chief mechanic "or whatever they call themselves" about fitting 16in rims in place of the 18in rims and after he picked himself up off the the floor, "thought he was going to have a Heart attack" I explained that I had done my homework and the overall diameter would only be -4mm less with the 16in wheels + tyres as opposed to the 18in wheels and tyres. He then went on to explain that it wouldn't matter so much with a manual gearbox, especially as the difference was so minimal, but that "they regularly get auto FL2's in with EMU and gearbox problems after owners change wheels and tyres, resulting in just a 9-10mm difference either way in overall diameter". Which is well within the 2.5% normally thought acceptable.

So WING, now we are approaching Spring, what was your experience of your new AT's during the winter?

By the way you didn't explain what tyre size you went for?

I have a 57 plate S with the standard 16" alloys and when the tyres wear out I would like to fit AT's so I am interested in your final choice.

Hi exmilade
As you know I fitted Goodyear Wrangler AT/SA tyres, the size I fitted was 235-70-16 which gave a difference in diameter of just -4mm (-2mm radius) resulting in an overall speed change over my standard 18" Pirelli Scorpion's of less than 0.25mph @ 50mph, just about as close as is possible without the same wheel tyre setup!

I've been very impressed with the tyres. As I have mentioned, there's been no noticeable impact on fuel consumption and virtually no impact on the cars dynamics regarding steering, handling or road-holding. In fact the car is noticeably soaking up more of the bumps and potholes than the Pirelli's ever did which may be down to the Kevlar lining Goodyear have used to prevent road noise and punctures. If so, it certainly seems to be working, as the tyres are quieter at all road speeds over the Scorpions!

I waited a little too long before fitting the tyres, as most of the snow had turned to slush by the time I did "the North West got off lightly this year too", so unfortunately I cannot say what it would be like to drive in 6"+ of the white stuff, but the open tread pattern certainly clears itself very well of any slush and mud I've driven through. The Scorpion's are a for the tread blocking up and tend to pick up more than their fair share of small stones, something else that isn't a problem with the AT/SA's.

I just wish they would make them to fit the standard HSE alloys and I'd leave them on all year round!
Regarding wear, They've been on for close to 2500 miles and still looking like new, but I doubt they would get much above 20,000-25,000 miles as they are a soft compound, but time will tell.

Edit: I've included a link to a handy tyre size calculator. simply enter your current size and the size of your future purchase and it comes up with everything you need to know

Hi Wing, thanks for that.
I will be very interested in the mileage you get out of them in the long run.
So if you remember in future, please keep us up to date with the progress.
Cheers
Ade

Wing wrote:

Hi exmilade
As you know I fitted Goodyear Wrangler AT/SA tyres, the size I fitted was 235-70-16 which gave a difference in diameter of just -4mm (-2mm radius) resulting in an overall speed change over my standard 18" Pirelli Scorpion's of less than 0.25mph @ 50mph, just about as close as is possible without the same wheel tyre setup!

I've been very impressed with the tyres. As I have mentioned, there's been no noticeable impact on fuel consumption and virtually no impact on the cars dynamics regarding steering, handling or road-holding. In fact the car is noticeably soaking up more of the bumps and potholes than the Pirelli's ever did which may be down to the Kevlar lining Goodyear have used to prevent road noise and punctures. If so, it certainly seems to be working, as the tyres are quieter at all road speeds over the Scorpions!

I waited a little too long before fitting the tyres, as most of the snow had turned to slush by the time I did "the North West got off lightly this year too", so unfortunately I cannot say what it would be like to drive in 6"+ of the white stuff, but the open tread pattern certainly clears itself very well of any slush and mud I've driven through. The Scorpion's are a for the tread blocking up and tend to pick up more than their fair share of small stones, something else that isn't a problem with the AT/SA's.

I just wish they would make them to fit the standard HSE alloys and I'd leave them on all year round!
Regarding wear, They've been on for close to 2500 miles and still looking like new, but I doubt they would get much above 20,000-25,000 miles as they are a soft compound, but time will tell.

Edit: I've included a link to a handy tyre size calculator. simply enter your current size and the size of your future purchase and it comes up with everything you need to know

W.D.C.A.P.H. wrote:

Wing,

mine don't have the snowflake symbol, although I'm sure I read somewhere that they weren't allowed to export tyres with it on, it was an American market only thing. Can't comment about the compound being different.

Laspae
As I have already mentioned, the tyres and 16" rims are strictly for winter use and the odd off-road day. I took them off around the end of March this year and fitted them again recently for a days off-roading and intend to leave them on until at least March next year. So far, we have not seen any snow and the temperatures are mild for the time of year to say the least.
I've probably driven close to 5000 miles with the AT/SA's fitted and there is still no hit on fuel consumption over the standard wheel/tyre setup. They are remarkably new looking compared to the Scorpion's at around 10,000 miles, which is surprising seeing as how soft the compound feels. On a recent off roading day they behaved impeccably and again surprised me when I stalled once or twice on very steep, loose, rocky inclines. I was expecting the tyres to struggle for grip on letting out the clutch, but they dug in well and dragged me up without any problem. Even after a good bath and another long, fairly steep climb up a loose peat hill, I was expecting the treads to be blocked with mud "as most of the others on standard Goodyear's or pirelli's were" but the AT/SA's tread was clean. I'll report back after we've had some snow and ice, but I can't really comment on the little bit we had in these parts last year.

Last edited by Wing on 3rd Dec 2011 8:42 pm. Edited 1 time in total

Mona Geeza wrote:

The rubber in the USA is special compound so the tyres squeal when moving away and on cornering, they like it that way, they even squeal on sand and mud, just watch the US films and listen.

Their fuel must be more volatile than ours as well. I've seen American cars on the box blow up at the slightest impact.