Hi folks,

B45tard employer has decided to transfer me to a low cost company with in a company using TUPE transfer.

Does anyone have experience of TUPE transfer? Looking for advice on the matter.

Cheers ... Very pi55ed former FL2 owner. Stornoway Grey GS ... What a fine motor ... but not any more ... ... psst look at my gallery!
Company cars ... a thing of the past - May 2013.

Sorry mate I haven't a clue

However if it Is serious maybe a solicitor might be better than a FL2 forum  Former Mod/Member, with the most post & Chicken George Arch nemesis

Hi there NP, yes solicitor is the ultimate answer, but being a cheap skate I'm trying to get a heads up before getting to the solicitors office ... you know keeping the cost down .... he.he.he.

Nearly 20 years of unstinting loyalty has amounted to nothing ... feeling a bit ...

I'm sure I'll get to a more positive place in a week or so ... Stornoway Grey GS ... What a fine motor ... but not any more ... ... psst look at my gallery!
Company cars ... a thing of the past - May 2013.

I think there are a few lawyers types over on didco3 and RRSport  Former Mod/Member, with the most post & Chicken George Arch nemesis

There's always citizens advice for free.... Phil

It pains me to say it but can you try a Union? TD4, HSE, Santorini Black, SS side protection tubes, clear side repeaters, chrome wing mirror covers

TUPE (Transfer Undertaking for the Protection of Employees) is something I came under when the company I worked for was acquired. In brief, it protects you from dismissal whilst working for your current company and transferring to the new one and ensures you maintain your contract, salary and benefits as part of TUPE, although some benefits may be changed for ones of equal standing, or more. You must be given a new contract of employment with the new business. You are protected from redundancy/dismissal when in the new company for a "reasonable period of time" (open to interpretation. However, it does not stop you being dismissed/redundant after that, providing it is part of normal cost cutting measures that affect the business overall.

In other words - you cannot be worse off in the new company than if you had stayed in the old.

It is not always a bad thing. Working for a new business opens up doors and opportunties that would not have been available in the old business. Learn new skills and work with new people.

Things to look out for:
Benefits and Pensions - scrutinise in detail the news ones compared to the old ones.
Investigate redundancy terms to make sure you would be well covered in that unfortunate event.
New role - what will that be - is it safe or is it a one way road out of the door - scrutinise and ask deep questions Chris

Last edited by ttc546 on 20th Nov 2009 7:29 am. Edited 1 time in total

I gave up loyalty to an employer long long time ago. I still make them think it but I have none after a bad experience myself: a former employer went bust and owed a lot of taxes which he managed to partly redirect to his former employees. He restarted his business under a new name, not even bothering to change his phones or his location. And by owing taxes I mean some 7.5 million euros (6 million pounds) of it.

I had to repay up 1250 euros when I only earned 1000 euros a month in those days after I worked for him for 2 years. Ever since then company loyalty has left me.

The only thing that's important is my family!

I'm not saying I've become a money grabbing bastard but I only do business with others when I control the money source. Sadly I've been proven wright several times since.

Thanks for replies folk.

ttc546, it seems they are able to make exclusions from the transfer undertaking, this is the bit that hurts. A redundancy offer from present employer would amount to 2 years money and other benefits. I would snap their hand off and take my chances in the world. The situation is being engineered precisely to loose that option. What they are doing is transferring us to a company within a company for the sole purpose of applying different T&C's to reduce costs. There would be no discernible difference in the company operation post transfer (except the employers name on my contract of employment), this is a paper exercise to reduce costs. Stornoway Grey GS ... What a fine motor ... but not any more ... ... psst look at my gallery!
Company cars ... a thing of the past - May 2013.

my sympathies,

( the trouble is you chose a volvo and are now seen as yesterdays man ) At work
At home

"I can't always believe facts I read on the web" - Charles Dickens

winner by default of the tractor vs caravan race

avtur wrote:

Thanks for replies folk.

ttc546, it seems they are able to make exclusions from the transfer undertaking, this is the bit that hurts. A redundancy offer from present employer would amount to 2 years money and other benefits. I would snap their hand off and take my chances in the world. The situation is being engineered precisely to loose that option. What they are doing is transferring us to a company within a company for the sole purpose of applying different T&C's to reduce costs. There would be no discernible difference in the company operation post transfer (except the employers name on my contract of employment), this is a paper exercise to reduce costs.

My understanding is under TUPE you keep all the terms and conditions and more importantly the service from the old company. If they try to change things it can be construed as constructive dismissal and you have recourse to an industrial Tribunal. My advise is join a union and then if needed you can access their free legal advice 

ttc54 is spot on with quote, Iam on the TUPE which finishes in July 2010 up to now there been no change to my working conditions apart from a new logo and a change to the shift pattern next year (for the better) Long term loss of Pension & Benefits, will have to work pass 55 now, but its better than being out of work. there not a lot of good paying jobs out there at the moment as couple of highly skilled friends of mine have found out. I look at it this way, your still getting paid so each year is a bonus, but on the over hand it may be for the best. Company's don't sell for the fun of it so if a company takes over iam sure they will make a go of it, not to make a loss,
One thing you have to remember they can change what they like at any time, they pull out their ace card it called business needs.
Hope it all works out alright for you its been ok for me up to now, as for loyalty forget that I was with the last company for 18 years it just make you feel like live stock just being sold off

Thanks again folks and Hinchy.

Beginning to understand a bit more about this now, the law is an ass, occupational pensions are specifically excluded from TUPE, which I guess is precisely why the company is taking this course of action. Also the new undertaking does not have to match the redundancy terms of the original company, yes years of service carry forward but but the discretionary enhanced terms most certainly don't and that is the sting, for me that means a near six figure sum has been taken from me. Also had good life insurance as a function of the pension scheme, will loose that which is a pain because previous health problems have made it difficult to get that myself. These and other benefits were a significant safety net for my family knowing they would be well taken care of if anything happened to me. You're right to point out that continuity of employment is a benefit in the short term, but emotions are high at present it'll be some time before I start to see any positives in this. Stornoway Grey GS ... What a fine motor ... but not any more ... ... psst look at my gallery!
Company cars ... a thing of the past - May 2013.

You need to check, but I think the new company DOES have to match your existing redundancy terms, at least for a 'reasonble' period of time, usually (but not legally) taken to be 2 years, unless you/your negotiating team can get them to agree to it being a 'legacy' benefit that they will maintain.
Also regarding pension, although not contractual, if you have a 'defined benefits/final salary' type pension, then the new company has to offer a pension where the employer pays at least 6% into a scheme.

How big a company are we talking about/how many employees are being TUPEied over? Is there any union representation? I am not a union persion myself, but have to say that when we were 'sold off' and TUPEied out, the Union/Staff Association were brilliant and ensured we kept our redundancy terms and a suitable pension scheme was in place. Certainly pleased with the redundancy terms being agreed as 'legacy' because 3 years later, they could prove invaluable as we are going through a very lean time right now and cut-backs might happen.