Hi.

I have looked through historical posts but I can't find any posts that are the same, here's my issue:

Always starts, even in the very cold conditions, but after a small amount of time during warmup, the car will just stall, even when in drive. Now I initially thought Crank Sensor, but there are no codes logged and when it does cut out, the dash lights do not come on. I get "Key Docked", I shift to neutral and the car starts as if nothing has happened. Happens once maybe twice but as soon as it is warmed up, good as gold.

Battery is testing ok, but during cold crank it is going down to 8v making me wonder if it is weak and with the large draw from the glow plugs, when the glow plugs turn off it kinda shocks the system. I also have a fault code for Glow Plugs open circuit so could be contributing. I just can't see it causing a cut out, it would give a non start situation... in my head but maybe I am wrong.

Car is driving me crazy, so any pointers would be good. I have replaced the Crank Sensor with a FEBI and no change.

I would check the battery under full load with cranking with headlights on, full air con on, and heating fan on full, also it appears the glow plugs are more than likely goosed with that open circuit code.

Start by clearing your known errors (new glow plugs?), then if battery is more than a few years old, a new one is most likely the next easiest (cheapest) step.

From looking at other similar posts on forum the crank sensor seems to be worth a look.

https://www.freel2.com/forum/search.php?se...rch_time=0 FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 77k+ miles) (MY2015)
Metro in its 11th Year of (Extended) LR Warranty / Full LR Service History
(Expensive, but Trouble/Worry free - hopefully?)

As I understand the system, the glow plugs are on all the time the engine is running to keep emissions down. So when cold and faulty glow plugs, it will stutter a bit. I have a glow plug out, and start at minus 6 takes two bites, and touch the throttle. Automatics should retard the ignition to hold tickover. I suspect a weak glowplug will tell the ECU that pre start check has not completed correctly, and not reset the throttle position to start position for the low temperature. Its a Ford program, so I suggest you do a relearning cycle after clearing all DTC's. The manual details how to do it.

From what I read the Glow Plugs have 3 phases; Pre-heat, Cranking heat, and Post-heat. The operation period times of which are determined by the Coolant Temperature (by the ECM).

Note - the workings and circuitry of the start system is heavily monitored and there are lots of error codes to give you hints on if the system is healthy and working.

From the Repair Manual

OVERVIEW

A glow plug is installed in the inlet side of each cylinder, to heat the combustion chambers before and during cranking.
This aids cold starting, reduces emissions and engine noise when idling from a cold engine.

A wiring harness on each bank of glow plugs is connected to a separate relay and fusible link in the BJB (battery junction
box) . Each glow plug is grounded through its fixing in the cylinder head. Operation of the glow plug relays is controlled by
the ECM , which also controls the illumination of the glow plug indicator in the instrument cluster.

Each glow plug is a tubular heating element which contains a spiral filament encased in magnesium oxide powder. At the
tip of the tubular heating element is the heater coil. Behind the heater coil, and connected in series, is a control coil. The
control coil regulates the current to the heater coil to safeguard against overheating.

OPERATION

There are three phases of glow plug heating: Pre heating, crank heating and post heating. The ECM (engine control
module) determines the heating times from the ECT (engine coolant temperature) . The lower the ECT (engine coolant
temperature) , the longer the heating times.

When the ignition switch is switched to mode II, the ECM (engine control module) calculates any required heating times
and, if heating is required, energizes the glow plug relays in the BJB (battery junction box) . When pre heating is required,
the ECM (engine control module) also sends a message to the instrument cluster, on the high speed CAN (controller area
network) bus, to request illumination of the glow plug indicator. The glow plug indicator remains illuminated for the
duration of the pre heating phase, or until the ignition switch is turned to the crank position, whichever occurs first. If
required, the ECM (engine control module) keeps the glow plug relays energized during cranking and for the duration of any
post heating phase.

The ECM (engine control module) monitors the drive circuit of the glow plug relays for plausibility of operation, continuity,
and short and open circuits. If a fault is detected, the ECM (engine control module) stores a related fault code and
permanently illuminates the glow plug indicator while the ignition switch is in mode II. FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 77k+ miles) (MY2015)
Metro in its 11th Year of (Extended) LR Warranty / Full LR Service History
(Expensive, but Trouble/Worry free - hopefully?)

Thanks for the replies, I did reply earlier but it didn't submit seemingly.

Still have issues, to give a little more info, the whole car shuts down, not just the engine, the headlights, wipers and stereo all switch off and the interior lights come on. It is as if someone has turned the car off. Once it has switched off, I get the "Key Docked" message on the dash and I can attempt to start the car. Sometimes it will restart and other times it will get part way through cranking and then shutdown again. Then once the dance has finished, go through this 5 or so times, it starts

this is what I have done since the issues developed:

- New Crank Sensor
- New battery
- Added an Earth
- removed the fuse for the PTC Heater
- removed the Glowplug relay
- new key, programmed to the car

This is what I have done in the last 6 months

- New throttlebody with sensors
- New map sensor
- New Alternator pulley

Fault Codes:
There was one for Glowplugs but isolated that by removing the GlowPlug relay.

I suspect it's a bad electrical connection somewhere.
Start by making sure all the connectors at the CJB are secure. You could try disconnecting the battery, then reseating all the connectors on the CJB and ECM. If you're lucky, you'll fix the issue for free. Hyundai Ioniq 5 Ultimate. The family car.
2009 Rimini Red SE TD4. Gone.
2006 Tonga Green i6 HSE. Gone.
Audi A5 convertible, my daily driver.
1972 Hillman Avenger GT, the project.

Thank you, I shall give that a go. The CJB is under the glovebox I assume - I checked if it was wet and gave everything a wiggle, I may just remove all plugs and spray some contact cleaner around.

Another option is that it is the key dock. A couple of instances where the key has been ejected and ingested a couple of times without me doing anything, once cut out. I thought it was due to a bad connection and\signal, but maybe the dock is just stuffed.

What about instrument cluster too, they seem to develop faults too. These cars really are a nightmare!

Check wiring harness under the air box. Some members have had issues with this rubbing on the framework underneath and causing electrical issues. Now at the point when I learn something new something old is lost out the other side !
Now retired so it doesn't matter anymore.
Freelander now gone.

Brilliant, thank you. I shall definitely give it a look.

Will try and inspect all earths.

Got in this morning and just put the ignition on, didnt attempt to start it as I just wanted to read the codes. Within 10 secs, ignition lights turned off and radio turned off. Then, turned the ignition back on and the dashlights stayed on and the radio kept cutting out. Think bad earth or connector somewhere!

Think I have made some headway. I have spent all morning on the Land Rover and I have checked all connectors in the Central Junction Box, taking them off, inspecting and putting back. I have cleaned all earths on the wing in the engine bay and added one from the battery to the starter motor mounting bolts. Checked the connections to the ECU and they are clean as a whistle.

But where I think I have made some headway, after doing all that, I started the car put lots of load on the car, so lights, heaters etc and the car cutout. Started back up, repeated what I did and I am getting a kinda rattly, dry bearing noise from the alternator. Turn electrical load off and the noise goes away. Charging voltage stays around 14.4v but on occasions I have seen 15v and at the extreme, 15.2v. Could the alternator have a loose connection or even be spiking the electrics? What do you think. When it cut out, we only saw 14.4v on the multi meter

If all is well there should be no noise from the alternator other than from spinning bearings and moving air. There is nothing in an alternator that should change under load so it could be that you have a bearing that has failed.

------or the one-way clutch on the drive pulley is failing --- it makes a noise when off load - perhaps overrun.

https://www.freel2.com/forum/topic37692.html?highlight=pulley FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 77k+ miles) (MY2015)
Metro in its 11th Year of (Extended) LR Warranty / Full LR Service History
(Expensive, but Trouble/Worry free - hopefully?)