Back in the early part of this year I posted a problem with my 09 diesel Freelander having poor starting when its been standing.
The issue has nothing to do with the outside temperature therefore the glow plugs are not an issue.
When the car has been parked up for a couple of hours and you try and start the engine cranks for several seconds before it will start. This will then produce some grey smoke which quickly disappears.
Once started the engine runs fine. If you stop it after a short drive, it will then start up no problem.
As is stated in the title there are no related codes using SDD or any other code reader.
Initially I received some good logical things to try from forum members, most I had already tried.

After many months the issue is still here and I have given up and put the car in the hands of a well known independent Landrover repair specialist. When I left the car I gave them a list of all the things that had been replaced and the dates work had been done.
The response was "leave it with us today and you should be able to pick it up tomorrow".
We are now SIX days in and they are struggling. Like most modern garages if the computer cannot tell them what the fault is they struggle with repairs.

Things that have been replaced are......battery, starter motor, cam sensor, crank sensor, oil temp sensor, coolant, temp sensor, fuel filter, throttle body cleaned and checked, swill flaps removed and inlet manifold checked for carbon build up.

The garage has also done a leak off test on the injectors.

Car has only done 68k miles very few were short journeys.

Someone on here must have had a similar fault and fixed it, after all it is a Landrover.

Would be nice if someone on the forum could come up with a solution before the experts

Open to any suggestions as I am desperate.  Now at the point when I learn something new something old is lost out the other side !
Now retired so it doesn't matter anymore.
Freelander now gone.

Last edited by gasman on 23rd Jun 2022 7:56 am. Edited 2 times in total

I am going to ask about a second earth strap and have you had the glow plugs looked at eyeballed and tested?

Thanks for the suggestions.

I forgot to mention the glow plugs, they were replace about a year ago just because of age. New ones were tested recently, but they have nothing to do with the issue as they only come into operation at 0 deg temp.
Also have extra earth strap direct to starter mounting bolt.

Appreciate the input though. Now at the point when I learn something new something old is lost out the other side !
Now retired so it doesn't matter anymore.
Freelander now gone.

The manual says the glow plugs sense Coolant Temperature, not Air Temperature.

Quote

OVERVIEW

A glow plug is installed in the inlet side of each cylinder, to heat the combustion chambers before and during cranking.
This aids cold starting, reduces emissions and engine noise when idling from a cold engine.

A wiring harness on each bank of glow plugs is connected to a separate relay and fusible link in the BJB (battery junction
box) . Each glow plug is grounded through its fixing in the cylinder head. Operation of the glow plug relays is controlled by
the ECM , which also controls the illumination of the glow plug indicator in the instrument cluster.

Each glow plug is a tubular heating element which contains a spiral filament encased in magnesium oxide powder. At the
tip of the tubular heating element is the heater coil. Behind the heater coil, and connected in series, is a control coil. The
control coil regulates the current to the heater coil to safeguard against overheating.

OPERATION

There are three phases of glow plug heating: Pre heating, crank heating and post heating. The ECM (engine control
module) determines the heating times from the ECT (engine coolant temperature) . The lower the ECT (engine coolant
temperature) , the longer the heating times.

When the ignition switch is switched to mode II, the ECM (engine control module) calculates any required heating times
and, if heating is required, energizes the glow plug relays in the BJB (battery junction box) . When pre heating is required,
the ECM (engine control module) also sends a message to the instrument cluster, on the high speed CAN (controller area
network) bus, to request illumination of the glow plug indicator. The glow plug indicator remains illuminated for the
duration of the pre heating phase, or until the ignition switch is turned to the crank position, whichever occurs first. If
required, the ECM (engine control module) keeps the glow plug relays energized during cranking and for the duration of any
post heating phase.

The ECM (engine control module) monitors the drive circuit of the glow plug relays for plausibility of operation, continuity,
and short and open circuits. If a fault is detected, the ECM (engine control module) stores a related fault code and
permanently illuminates the glow plug indicator while the ignition switch is in mode II. FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 77k+ miles) (MY2015)
Metro in its 11th Year of (Extended) LR Warranty / Full LR Service History
(Expensive, but Trouble/Worry free - hopefully?)

You have said you have replaced the battery. Have you nevertheless tried a jumpstart. It will narrow the list of possibilities. You could have a replacement dodgy battery. Procrastination, mankind's greatest labour saving device!

Acoustic insulation ARB TPMS 3xARB air compressors After cooler Air tank On-board OCD pressure air/water cleaning Additional 50L fuel Carpet in doors ABE 2x1kg Waeco 28L modified fridge Battery 4x26ah Solar 120w Victron MPPT 100/20 DC-DC 18amps 175amp jumper plug Awning 6x255/60R18

Hi Ian

Technically you are correct, but as a general guide it would be about 0 deg outside temperature.

However, this is all academic as far as my problem is concerned as this has been an issue all year, does exactly the same in warm weather.
As I said no fault codes present. What is required is a good old fashioned mechanic who can work without a computer.  Now at the point when I learn something new something old is lost out the other side !
Now retired so it doesn't matter anymore.
Freelander now gone.

Hi Lightwater

Yes, have tried a jump start, two other batteries and a jump pack. Have also had the new battery load tested.

Problem is even the Landrover people appear to be clutching at straws, six days and counting.  Now at the point when I learn something new something old is lost out the other side !
Now retired so it doesn't matter anymore.
Freelander now gone.

IanMetro wrote:

OPERATION

There are three phases of glow plug heating: Pre heating, crank heating and post heating. The ECM (engine control
module) determines the heating times from the ECT (engine coolant temperature) . The lower the ECT (engine coolant
temperature) , the longer the heating times.

When the ignition switch is switched to mode II, the ECM (engine control module) calculates any required heating times
and, if heating is required, energizes the glow plug relays in the BJB (battery junction box) . When pre heating is required,
the ECM (engine control module) also sends a message to the instrument cluster, on the high speed CAN (controller area
network) bus, to request illumination of the glow plug indicator. The glow plug indicator remains illuminated for the
duration of the pre heating phase, or until the ignition switch is turned to the crank position, whichever occurs first. If
required, the ECM (engine control module) keeps the glow plug relays energized during cranking and for the duration of any
post heating phase.

The ECM (engine control module) monitors the drive circuit of the glow plug relays for plausibility of operation, continuity,
and short and open circuits. If a fault is detected, the ECM (engine control module) stores a related fault code and
permanently illuminates the glow plug indicator while the ignition switch is in mode II.

Hi Ian

Glow plug light did come on a couple of days ago when we had snow and it was -2 outside but the issue was the same.

The old coolant sensor was checked when using an Autel scan tool and that showed roughly what the temperatures should be.
However I changed it anyway as I thought it was worth a go. No difference.

No matter what the outside temp. is, when the car has been allowed to cool down, it becomes difficult to start.

I did suspect a fuel pressure issue but the fuel rail gets to pressure within 2 seconds and the injectors have been checked for leak off and they are ok. I also checked to see if the injectors were getting a signal to fire using a noid light, also ok.

I suspect the fuel / air mixture is either too lean or too rich at start up and the normal compression has difficulty igniting it .
I don't know how to test for that, hence it's in the garage. Now at the point when I learn something new something old is lost out the other side !
Now retired so it doesn't matter anymore.
Freelander now gone.

Another thought the glow plugs are the correct ones for the car?


You don't need me to tell you there are two different voltages depending on MY

Glow plugs are the correct ones as they worked before this fault.

Glow plugs are not required though in warmer weather, and fault still exists. Now at the point when I learn something new something old is lost out the other side !
Now retired so it doesn't matter anymore.
Freelander now gone.

Looked at what the Manual said about cranking without starting.

The most obvious is the possibility of a poor (Power or Signal) Body Earth to one of the modules.

Engine Cranks But Will Not Start

If the engine is cranking it means that the EMS has passed the authorisation required with the CJB. If this authorisation
failed, the ECM would not engage the starter relay. This could be confirmed by verifying the LED in the left of the

Instrument pack being illuminated for 3 seconds on Key insertion, or by reading DTCs from the CJB or the ECM.

In all cases of suspected non-start issues, the most logical failure modes should be eliminated first. i.e.

1. Check all relevant supplies and grounds to the relevant modules are ok.

2. Note any unusual behaviour from other systems/functionality.

3. Note any functions that are not operating as expected.


 FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 77k+ miles) (MY2015)
Metro in its 11th Year of (Extended) LR Warranty / Full LR Service History
(Expensive, but Trouble/Worry free - hopefully?)

gasman wrote:

Hi Ian

Glow plug light did come on a couple of days ago when we had snow and it was -2 outside but the issue was the same.

The old coolant sensor was checked when using an Autel scan tool and that showed roughly what the temperatures should be.
However I changed it anyway as I thought it was worth a go. No difference.

No matter what the outside temp. is, when the car has been allowed to cool down, it becomes difficult to start.

I did suspect a fuel pressure issue but the fuel rail gets to pressure within 2 seconds and the injectors have been checked for leak off and they are ok. I also checked to see if the injectors were getting a signal to fire using a noid light, also ok.

I suspect the fuel / air mixture is either too lean or too rich at start up and the normal compression has difficulty igniting it .
I don't know how to test for that, hence it's in the garage.

Thanks for the input.

I would assume that a specialist Landrover garage would have all the required diagnostic tools including an oscilloscope.
I'll check with them on Monday, see if they have thought of something over the weekend.

There is plenty of information regarding cranking and no start, but very little on long cranking before starting. Most information relates to car that require the glow plugs on every start up. Now at the point when I learn something new something old is lost out the other side !
Now retired so it doesn't matter anymore.
Freelander now gone.

FWIW this sounds very like my vehicle. Some starts are instant, others are uo to 10 seconds of cranking, which seems like forever.. No "solution" thus far, but it does start and runs well. I'm learning to live with it, I have spent a lot of money on the beast in the last year. MY11 SD4 SE Auto