Hello all
I’m Steve,retired due to ill health live in Penrhyn Bay near Llandudno
I’m looking to buy an SE model as they have cloth seats which l find really comfortable. Foolishly sold my 08 model and regretted it ever since.
The reason l need comfy seats is due to my back 3 back ops +++++ plus loads of injections so pain forced me to retire early.
Since when l’ve had yet another op and l’m fitted with a spinal cord stimulator, think Wallis and wring trousers.
Reason l’m thinking of a bigger engine is that motor l can see has 163000 miles, so a rebuild or scrap on the horizon.
All thoughts welcome
Thanks in advance
Steve

Interesting question! I can see why, if you are looking at buying a new engine you would want to look at all the options, but in all the thousands of comments i’ve read about the FL2, I don’t think I have seen many complaints about engine size, so I wouldn’t imagine there will be many who have swapped it out for something bigger.

On a wider issue, having bought an FL2 with 79,000 miles on the clock and hoping to take it to about 200,000, I have concerns that it will die of software, ECU and sensor failures rather than the old-fashioned mechanical things, so I would be reluctant to invest too much in one with 163,000 on the clock. Perhaps that needs re-thinking for a young but high mileage example, but even then i’d be wary for other reasons. 2005 D3 2.7 Auto
Previously:
2010 MY FL2 TD4e GS - Now gone at 199,500 miles, about 135,000 of them mine.
‘93 Defender 110 200TDi CSW
‘87 Defender 90 4 cyl Petrol
‘83 110 CSW V8 - best ever!
Range Rover 2-door V8 (not sure of year - 4-speed box and vacuum diff switch)
Series III SWB Diesel

Thoughts. Buy a winning lottery ticket.

Not much chance really of that but same principle of wasting money buying one of these with ultra high mileage. FL2 MY10 TD4 GS traded in at 2 years
FL2 MY13 TD4 GS Current

So the hgh mileage is as l thought too big a risk.

I’ve seen a FL2 SE of course with 89k just replaced rear diff. £7,000 so heavy on price. In black my wife’s favorite colour. At a landy independent, seemed very knowledgeable.

Thinking that might be worth getting, thoughts welcome

At 89K the year is important, 60k to cambelt change is OK, but I suspect the 10year limit may be closer, that's the big cost if the diff has been done. my PC is slightly to the right of Genghis
2012 HSE SD4 In Orkney Grey now gone, best car ever.

07 reg 160,500 still going strong, in my opinion a lot of the people on this forum have a lot of money and would not entertain a higher miles car, or a car older than 5 years of age, their attitude is like living in the 70s where 85,000 is too high

Modern cars should if cared for do 200,000 with ease in my opinion (and that of many others)

So using a simple piece of logic , most on here have cars with lower miles, most of the problems on this forum therefore relate to lower mile cars ?? . . .  2017 SEAT Ateca 4drive 2.0 xcellence (May 2022 -
2007 HSE with HST bodykit in Zermatt Silver 169,700 miles (dec 2016 - May 2022 )
2007 Honda Civic Type S GT (2012-2017)
2002 Mini Cooper S (2008-2012)
1992 Honda Legend 3.2i (2003-2008)
1990 Honda Concerto (1999-2003)
1985 Honda Accord (1997-1999)
1983 Honda Accord (1993-1997)
1983 Mini Mayfair (1988-1993)
1974 Mini 1000 (1979-1986)

Northcroft - I agree to a certain degree with what you say about higher mileage cars against lower mileage. These days the mechanical sides of most cars are fairly bullet proof and will go for 200k + with only routine maintenance and the odd replacement part. (poor or mediocre maintained 2nd hand cars will inevitably have longer term issues due to inadequate maintenance).

However its the electrics and electronics that seem to cause the most headaches to most people these days on all cars, no matter what the manufacturer and the tech stuff is what lets down reliability in a lot of cases and generally cant be maintained by the average user. This tech can be incredibly expensive to diagnose and replace (they don't repair much in this throw away modern society) so most of us would prefer to have a car that has decent warranty to cover tech failures as well as any mechanical failures. Unfortunately this means most of preferring if possible to have a nearly new or brand new car that the dealer will sort under warranty.

Northcroft wrote:

07 reg 160,500 still going strong, in my opinion a lot of the people on this forum have a lot of money and would not entertain a higher miles car, or a car older than 5 years of age, their attitude is like living in the 70s where 85,000 is too high

Modern cars should if cared for do 200,000 with ease in my opinion (and that of many others)

So using a simple piece of logic , most on here have cars with lower miles, most of the problems on this forum therefore relate to lower mile cars ?? . . .

I omitted to say its an early FL22007, 89,000 £7k with rear diff done.


EDIT

Just spoken to garage cam belt, diff, gearbox flushed new filters and finally full service oils etc. so it feels good to me any thoughts guys most welcome

Last edited by Penrhyn on 30th May 2018 11:25 am. Edited 1 time in total

your original post was a bit confusing as you mentioned the motor had done 163,000

with 89k, and a good service history you should have very few problems hopefully, but advisable to budget in the 10 year service items like cam belt and full fluid changes if they haven't already been done

The original question looks to be a two pronged attack.

a) Are old high mileage Freelanders reliable?

b)Can I use lack of reliability as an excuse to shoe horn in a bigger engine because that's really what I want to do?

In answer to a) I don't see the FL2 as being any more or less reliable than any other 10 year old 100K+ miles car/4x4. I agree that they are complicated and electrical maladies are some of the worst to sort because they are often intermittent and difficult to diagnose. Not that the Freelander is any more prone to such things than anything else. The Freelander doesn't seem to have much that could be considered deliberate design obsolescence but older cars do need a different mind set to new vehicles.

b) No. The engine is more than up to the task. If it goes pop then put in a second hand lower mileage one of the same type. In 10 years time all oil burners will have been converted to electric motors any way.

If you can stretch to a SD4 Auto then you will have plenty of power.
Likewise if you can get a FL2 from 2013, 2014, then lots of bits have been updated (improved?) to bring it in line with the Evoque.

I agree oily bits should last 200k miles, if looked after, and the electronics the same, if you are lucky.

The problem, as with any modern car is that the oily bits are easily diagnosed, but the electronics need specialist test equipment and skills.

The FL2 is a lovely comfy car, enjoy; and put some money by each year in case it goes wrong. FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 79k+ miles) (MY2015)
Metro in its 11th Year of (Extended) LR Warranty / Full LR Service History
(Expensive, but Trouble/Worry free - hopefully?)

Electronics have a mean time between failure of 6-7 years, so taking into account of the early failures you have the chance of a failure at about the 10-11 year area, you may be lucky, you may not, just look at tv's for the average electronic failure rate, then decide if you want to take the chance. Should a garage not be able to diagnose the actual failure, don't allow them to change bits ad hoc until they hit the actual fault, walk away with your car and find someone who can define the fault, always get the fault codes and peddle them about until you get a definitive answer, the better the software the closer to the actual fault, you need at least a 5 digit code anything else is guess work my PC is slightly to the right of Genghis
2012 HSE SD4 In Orkney Grey now gone, best car ever.

I agree with Dartman.

A quote from IBM on the subject of Automobile Electronic Systems Life Cycle say:
Both automotive suppliers and OEMs are struggling because their current engineering practices are unable to keep up with the epic expansion from traditional mechanical engineering to electronic and embedded software development. It has become clear that the automotive industry must embrace a combination of software and systems engineering to succeed.

This is the document (I never read to the end!!)
https://www-07.ibm.com/innovation/in/leade...46USEN.pdf


I believe that although the electrical/electronic design of cars is getting better at hardening components & wiring to their working environment,, two things may bring a car to a premature end.

1)The stresses of movement, heat/cold, and corrosion to the wiring and connectors.

2)The lack of sufficent technical training and test equipment in most garages.

Over time the self test circuitry built into the electronics will get better, but I fear that the manufactures may guard the ability to interpret the results fiercely. Then smaller garages will guess, or component swap, leading to a great number of 'spares' containing the most obscure faults.

And then there is the software, and the gradual deteriation of each individual module's storage to remember it accurately............

Bring back the original Land Rover, which could be mended on the roadside with a screwdriver and an adjustable spanner. FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 79k+ miles) (MY2015)
Metro in its 11th Year of (Extended) LR Warranty / Full LR Service History
(Expensive, but Trouble/Worry free - hopefully?)

I think a bigger issue than the ability of technicians to diagnose faults on older "electronic" cars is going to be the availability of the components. The life span of modern microprocessors is getting shorter - ie faster, more memory, different power useage. The manufacturers have to innovate to stay competitive.
So lets say it takes 3 years to design and test a new car, it then has a product run of 6 years - the ECU components have at that point been commonly available for 9 years - think about it if you expect the parts to be available for 10 years after the last car was made, then the processor has to be in production for 19 years.


19 years ago is the stone age for electronics Tangiers Orange - gone, missing her
Replaced by Ewok what a mistake - now a happy Disco Sport owner