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oldgeezer



Member Since: 09 Apr 2011
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 1302

United Kingdom 2013 Freelander 2 TD4 GS Manual Baltic Blue
Insurance dealer servicing and remapping BEWARE

As vehicle technology moves forward insurance companies are adding more clauses !
Vehicles fitted with ADAS (Advanced driver-assistance systems) which actually includes HDC and adaptive cruise control, park assist to list just a few


1. Under the vehicle and aviation bill, drivers of self-driving cars will not be covered by insurance if the software has been subject to unauthorised changes, or fail to keep software up-to-date?

2. Under SAE International's J3016 standard (known as the: Taxonomy and Definitions for Terms Related to On-Road Motor Vehicle Automated Driving Systems), there are six levels of autonomous vehicles.

The guide continues that the six levels are consistent with industry practice, were designed to "eliminate confusion" and be used in engineering, legal, media and public discussions.
Level 0: No automation
Does what it says on the tin. The car is not automated in any way and relies on a human for all the tasks.
Level 1: Driver assistance
Level 1 involves the human and a computer system working together on tasks, with most the work being done by the person at the wheel. It encompasses many cars that are already on the road today running with so-called assistance modes such as Jaguar Land Rover's experimental off-road vehicles, capable of using off-road cruise control.
SAE International explains level 1 driver assistance systems include steering, acceleration/deceleration as well as features that use "information about the driving environment". Ultimately, though, the human is expected to do the majority of the work.
Level 2: Partial automation
Here's where things start to get serious. In level 2 systems, the steering and speed of the vehicle are controlled by "one or more driver assistance systems" but a human controls the other elements of driving.
Tesla's Autopilot system has been described as being within the level 2 bracket, although it is also considered, by some, to be a level 3 vehicle.
Level 3: Partial automation
Vehicles in level 3 and above are considered "automated driving systems". The substantial difference here is that the vehicles can monitor the driving environment around them. Crucially, these types of vehicles make decisions themselves. For instance, a level 3 car will be capable of seeing a slower moving vehicle in front of it before taking the decision to overtake. The human is on hand, mostly, to intervene if things go wrong.
Level 4: High automation
The autonomous cars Ford wants to put on the road by 2021 are considered to be level 4 vehicles.
SAE describes this as having "driving mode-specific performance by an automated driving system of all aspects of the dynamic driving task, even if a human driver does not respond appropriately to a request to intervene". Put more simply, if something goes wrong, the car can handle it itself.
Level 5: Full automation
In this scenario, no human control of a vehicle is needed at all. Level five has full automation and vehicles don't need any pedals, steering wheels, or controls for a human to take charge. Google, through its Waymo subsidiary, is working on producing this level of automation.

So if its not had any software updates carried out that are due or the vehicle has been remapped it does leave some questions !
In the event of a serious accident and or death insurance companies do now send an expert to the vehicle to retrieve crash data and ECU information.
The amount of crash data available is quite informing !
You have been warned ! Jaguar x-type sport gone
Jaguar x-type 2.2d sport one of my best cars ever sadly gone
Freelander 2 GS auto 2008 most unreliable ever ! gladly gone
Freelander 2 GS manual 2013 only time will tell !

Post #328070 30th Jul 2017 9:40 am
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Yorky Bob



Member Since: 28 Apr 2015
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 4561

United Kingdom 2013 Freelander 2 TD4 GS Manual Firenze Red

My legal council (me) would be asking the insurance company brief to produce the letter that was sent to "Mr Yorky" to inform him that a software update was available as the car was serviced as per the service schedule by a time served 5 year apprentice mechanic (me) !

I would argue altering software is one thing but the onus must rest with the manufacturer to inform a customer (Mr Yorky) that a software update is required if it has a baring on his and others safety.

A they say in court I rest my case Wink is it an open or shut case well ............... Rolling Eyes FL2 MY10 TD4 GS traded in at 2 years
FL2 MY13 TD4 GS Current

Post #328107 30th Jul 2017 6:29 pm
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RogB



Member Since: 16 Dec 2014
Location: Mansfield
Posts: 3881

England 2013 Freelander 2 SD4 HSE Lux Auto Santorini Black

This is the problem with independent servicing instead of main dealer. The main dealer (should) always check that the vehicle has the latest software updates that fit the category (gearbox ECU or similar may not be mandatory).

But if you are not forced by law to go to a main dealer, how will you know if your 8/9/10 year old car has the latest software ? The ONLY way to know is to go to a main dealer and pay them to check and upload as required. Which then leads on to fair competition etc.

The only way round it is for main dealers to release the software to independent garages, no doubt for a substantial sum of money which is then passed onto the customer. But I cant really see main dealers doing this as they will just become points of sale for cars instead of servicing them too which will lose them a shed load of money.

It would be interesting to see a case go to court against an insurance company who refused to pay out if a software update hadn't been done on a 10 year old car.

Same as if an insurance company refused to pay out because the car was illegally modded with a Freel2 sticker in the window Shocked

Post #328124 31st Jul 2017 6:47 am
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SYFL2



Member Since: 16 Jun 2012
Location: Sheffield
Posts: 2597

2007 Freelander 2 TD4 HSE Auto Stornoway Grey

Try having a Detaiingworld sticker on the back cops take them off the road same as no insurance Rolling with laughter

Post #328126 31st Jul 2017 6:56 am
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Vanny



Member Since: 06 Dec 2015
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 437

United Kingdom 2013 Freelander 2 SD4 XS Auto Santorini Black

RogB wrote:
This is the problem with independent servicing instead of main dealer. The main dealer (should) always check that the vehicle has the latest software updates that fit the category (gearbox ECU or similar may not be mandatory).


LR main dealers are only allowed to claim warranty for a software update if it has been issued as a 'Field Action' ie they pop up in a 'Must Do' list with the dealer tool or if the vehicle has an issue with a particular module. They don't normally go through and update every module as it could take days, as i discovered after picking up my FreeL2 and finding many modules out of date!

Safety critical updates have to be released as a 'recall' and have to be published publicly (in the UK and US at least)

https://www.themotorombudsman.org/vehicle-recalls

Post #328204 31st Jul 2017 7:13 pm
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