Talking to some people in the trade over the past few weeks I have got the impression that unless something is done about rising fuel costs and unfair VED tax rises nobody is going to buy Discovery's,Range Rovers etc.This downturn in sales of big 4+4s might not affect some manufacturers too much because they all sell other types of vehicles.Land Rover is unique and does not have any small petrol or diesel cars to fall back on!Some dealers have actually said they think Land Rover will go to the wall pretty quickly. Stornaway grey SE auto with 18" alloys

But LR has excellent sales in other parts of the world so I expect LR to thrive while UK dealers dont At work
At home

"I can't always believe facts I read on the web" - Charles Dickens

winner by default of the tractor vs caravan race

And also it already sells the FL2, which compared to the little Suzuki Jimmys etc. it might be big, and compared to the CRV it might not be as economical, but compared to virtually any other 4x4 of the same size or bigger, it is cheap to run, tax, fuel and insure. And a fantastic car

Also, they are working hard on the CO2 emmisions, and if they can get there eTerrain and stop start systems working then they'll be doing even better.

If Fuel and tax etc. keeps rising then surely more emergency services will consider using the FL2 rather than the Disco/Defender.

Rich

Lucky for Land Rover they have a global market (including places where the tax burden on fuel and vehicles isn't so criminal), but I think working on sales stratergy, particuarly in the UK, at present must be a pretty difficult job. I think there will always be a market for a limited number of folks for who the cost of a gallon of fuel or price of their VED is less significant. But many of us will feel the pinch and change our buying stratergy.

In fuel alone I'm £100 per month worse off than a year ago, that's enough for me to say I've enjoyed the FL2, but there wont be another one. Actually there is compunding effect that to replace my car like for like would cost nearly £100 more, so the combined cost on another FL2 would be an additional cost of £200 per month, I cannot justify that, though we all have our own values we apply to this.

I hope for LR's sake that although they may loose some from the FL2 to other brands; the FL2 could become a logical choice to replace the larger cars, I hope so for LR's sake.

I think for the FL2 there may be some reduced sales, but for those who buy the more expensive models, well I don't understand the logic. The price of the large models are high enough that the increase in VED (~£250 pa) and fuel (~£700 pa based upon 10000 miles, 25mpg, 130pence now compared with 99pence before) is small compared with the cost of the vehicle in the first place. They should be more worried about cost of depreciation instead. The rich will keep on buying anyway. Phil

phil_wkl wrote:

They should be more worried about cost of depreciation instead ..... and thats where the hit will be much greater, my car has seen a reduction in value of £2500 on a 30 month deal - that todays figures compared with when I got my car in Jan07, hence the increase in repayments for a new one - if this is for the 'economical' FL2 what will it be for the bigger cars?

The rich will keep on buying anyway .... I agree there will always be folks are not impacted by such things as fuel price, VED and high depreciation - but I wonder just how big that group of people is. They are also likely to be the folk with bigger mortgages, paying higher school fees, reduced investment income because the ar5e has dropped out of the FTSE etc... .

phil_wkl wrote:

The rich will keep on buying anyway.

Even rich people don't like throwing money away - one of my colleagues has just bought a 2 year old FFRR Vogue SE Supercharged for £35k, was £75k brand new, that's £20k a year in depreciation

avtur wrote:

phil_wkl wrote:

The rich will keep on buying anyway .... I agree there will always be folks are not impacted by such things as fuel price, VED and high depreciation - but I wonder just how big that group of people is. They are also likely to be the folk with bigger mortgages, paying higher school fees, reduced investment income because the ar5e has dropped out of the FTSE etc... .

In Ireland, it seems that Land Rover have soaked up the price increase on the FL2, in anticipation of the start-stop system being introduced & reducing the Co2 emissions. Thereby allowing the Freelander sit in a lower tax bracket.

But since we moved to road tax & VRT (Vehicle Registration Tax) being calculated on emissions, rather than engine size since July 1st, there has been a serious hike in prices.

For example, the price of a new RRS has gone up by somewhere in the region of seven or eight grand & a FFR going up by around twelve grand

With the annual road tax on a RRS rising from Eur 1,147.00 pre July 1st to a whopping two grand a year for Sports registered after July 1st

So I reckon that sales of new Land Rover’s are going to be dead in the water here, for a very long time. The worrying thing is that LR only build 4x4’s, whereas all the competitors such as Audi, BMW, MB have other vehicles in their line up & are not solely depending on 4x4 sales.

Worrying times for sure  “You feel uneasy, as the mad scientist locks the door behind you & dissolves the key in a vat of Acid”

I think many people generally overreact to certain issues, and fuel price seems to be a major one (especially in the US). As can be seen now the cost of oil is now dropping, and the reality is that if you really can't afford the recent increases in fuel prices then maybe you were pushing your budget just that little too far in the first place (Situation dependent of course).

Us Brits put a lot of focus on our cars and quite often overstretch ourselves, and the average debt in the UK gives a good example of this, which is completely different to Holland where the majority live well within their means I found.

.....just my opinion

I think as a company focused on 4x4's LR will has a good future ahead. I think it more likely that other brands that have 4x4's in their line up may go the "Ford" route and focus on the non-4x4 models and drop some of the 4x4 models in the future allowing LR to keep production numbers stable, rather than increasing or decreasing.

The above I think is certainly true if they continue along the path of more fuel efficient vehicles that they are promising.

The increase in fuel prices is not new yet you have BMW releasing the X6, MB introducing a new 4x4 and a number of other 4x4 developments so the market appears to be there even now with the current economic climate.

The other part in all of this that whilst the US and the UK are seeing downturns in the 4x4 markets there are massive emerging markets (Russia, China, Middle East along with many smaller ones as well) which are buying huge amounts of 4x4's and luxury vehicles.........which will continue for the foreseeable future.

I don't really have the right to an opinion on this as I pay no road tax (except toll roads) and penuts for fuel for my cars  Once you've tasted GREY you'll never go back!