I was talking the other day to someone about LandRovers in general and they made the point that most people associate the brand with the Defender ie a "proper" LandRover and that this is the essence of the heritage of Freelanders, Evoques, Discos etc etc . In other words the brand is living off the brand capital of the Defender. It's a bit like buying Ferrari or Porsche where although you know it's not a Formula 1 or Le Mans car you know that the same engineering ethos and history went into the product.

So what happens to LR when you no longer see Defenders covered in mud and a couple of calves in the back driving around? LR is not visible in any Safari type Rallying these days so what will it stand for? Are we heading for another BMW. Audi etc blandness?

Discuss.

From a financial point of veiw I believe they can, as it's the rest of the range thats flying out of showrooms and bringing in the money. From a brand image point of view though, I think it needs the Defender and should've been reinvented a while back, I hope that when the replacement finally arrives it sticks to the core values of the car with a little bit more space behind the wheel.

The market is there for a no nonsense 4wd vehicle, though its not large, but its there. 21MY Defender 90 S 3.0 D200

dorsetfreelander wrote:

Are we heading for another BMW. Audi etc blandness?

j77 wrote:

The market is there for a no nonsense 4wd vehicle, though its not large, but its there.

The defender was meant to be revamped back in 2006 but the new RRS took priority! As J has correclty said the other models rake in the pennies for JLR!

If it wasn't for the Defender this forum would not exist.

I really hope they make the replacement machine in a squared jawed much wider design with a decent enigne choice. I will glady get it to replace my dynamic when the time comes  MY14 Kahn Converted Dynamic - Fuji White Ebony/Pimento Interior
MY15 Xenon Headlight Conversion

MY17 RRS SVR - Estoril Blue Cirrus/Ebony 🪣💺’s

I read somewhere, I think it was on here, that LR only make 20000 defenders a year so that was the reason used along with engine emissions to halt production. I'm sure on the same thread someone mentioned that the defender could be made in China then imported in to the UK as due to the low numbers involved a Chinese Defender wouldn't have to meat the same emission standards as a UK one. I'm only going by memory so I could well be wrong but I'm sure I read this on another thread on here. Black MY2013 SD4 GS Auto, Wood Company Armrest, Freel2 sticker.
Gone MY2010 Freelander 2 Manual TD4.e S, Alaska White.

Not too long ago, before moving on to Freelanders, I was test driving a TD5 Defender prior to purchase and the subject of it's long term future came up. the salesman basically said 'you're driving a vehicle that's virtually hand-built and in the current motor industry this is questionable'
As someone said, the Defender should have been updated years ago but the likes of Toyota, Nissan etc with their excellent pickups have now got the market and I can't see them being deposed. Also the British Army and other military organisations are already looking elsewhere. 11 GS Bali Blue
07 GS FL2. Usually muddy. Gone
Numerous LRs since 1963

Quote:

LR only make 20000 defenders a year so that was the reason used along with engine emissions to halt production.

Quote:

I'm sure on the same thread someone mentioned that the defender could be made in China then imported in to the UK as due to the low numbers involved a Chinese Defender wouldn't have to meat the same emission standards as a UK one.

The best we will get at the moment is LRs special vehicle division, they have said they will do extreme off road versions off their cars. Will cost a bit no doubt.

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/land-rover/89...-the-works 21MY Defender 90 S 3.0 D200

I think the future viability of Landrover is questionable if they continue to let their unique and priceless brand identity wither away.
Landrover are a (relatively) small volume niche market producer. If their vehicles are not special and different then VW, BMW and all the Japanese and Korean huge volume car producers will be able to build better, cheaper, more reliable vehicles due to economies of scale, far higher R&D budgets and a far stronger international dealer networks. Current good sales of the blinged up very expensive models the company sells now is no guide to future sales in an uncertain world. It was only a few years ago that Landrover sales fell through the floor along with other expensive marques when the credit crunch bit to the extent that LR had to go begging (unsuccessfully) to the British Government. A similar slump or another energy crisis is by no means impossible and the company will have lost core customer brand loyalty because their cars are no longer special - just expensive gas guzzlers. For a while Range Rovers, and such like were vilified in some quarters, Defenders and Freelies never attracted such animosity.
Building ever more complex, blinged up, fragile and expensive cars appeals to the Chelsea focus groups and short term minded executives who have little sense of management of core brand loyalty and product differentiation in a crowded market place.
What does the Landrover brand stand for nowadays? Hmmm, less than it used to I would say and without a brand icon like the Defender in the range the company will have lost its mojo.

Sadly you are right. Land Rover as a brand doesn't exist in these quarters.... It's JLR or Jaguar Land Rover. That's how it's known in Warwickshire, and they don't seem that bothered about the ambiguity. My personal thoughts are that Jag stayed as just that, Range Rover stayed as the comfy division, and Land Rover stayed as the the utilitarian, uncomfortable, unreliable but solid Marque name that it was synonimous with.

But what do I know? Foraging near Gaydon....
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MY13 HSE Lux SD4, Baltic Blue - current, 30,000> miles without fault
MY12 HSE 2.2 SD4, Sumatra Black - gone after 10 months/43,000 fault-free miles

I think they are missing a trick when it comes to the Defender. LR have a good record for re-imagining the design cues of whats gone before into modern looks ... and the defender would really benefit from it. ( although I think the DC100 was quite off the mark imho)

As for building it ... I think you could reasonably easily develop a modular platform that offers similar configuration / changability as the existing defender design.

For example, the L322 used subframes for the front and rear drivetrain ... no reason why a new defender couldn't use the same setup so that the front and rear drivetrain halves were subframe units that bolted up into standard lower chassis body sections, and the centre sections were all that changed to join between the 2 ends. So a rear axle subframe is shared between a 90, 110, 130 and just bolted up to the body.

My brother in law is a dairy farmer, he has a Freelander 2 as a family car and an Defender for running around doing farming jobs. I was talking to him about the demise of the Defender and he said he would probably end up with a Japanese pickup next time unless he could get a good second hand Defender to last him a few years longer.
Makes you wonder if it's worth buying a Defender as a speculative purchase (last time something like this happened was in the 80's when the Ford Capri was discontinued and then a lot of Ford workers bought them as an investment)

Don't tell everyone!  10MY (Sept 09) TD4 HSE Auto in Stornoway Grey (Now Gone)

08 FL2 TD4 SE Manual in Rimini Red (Now Gone)

I think a good late model Defender is always going to be a very desirable vehicle for people who actually use them for what they are good at. Once they stop coming off the line the market will tighten up when others buy them more as collectors pieces and for posing around Chelsea in.
I think engineering a new vehicle to cover the range of platforms that the Defender and it's predecessors did would be extremely difficult and JLR would not have to funds to turn it out given the huge costs of keeping the bling wagons up to date with all the latest technological toys. I think the best they could do would be strip down the current Disco 4, simplifying and lightening it - that would save them having to re-invent the floor pan and body. They could then manufacture that model overseas to allow them access to controlled home markets - unless they shift production to cater for those markets they simply won't get in there in.

dunkley201 wrote:

Don't tell everyone!

Tradewind 35 wrote:

I think the best they could do would be strip down the current Disco 4