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From PMQ this week...

Miliband went for another headline-grabber and claimed that 13 million of us are living in poverty.

Britain has the richest paupers in the world. There are Nikes, iPods, wide-screen TVs and buckets of fried chicken in every household. Hospitals, dentists, schools and pensions are available to everyone. It’s amazing we can face penury on this scale with such cheerful stoicism.

Discuss...

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Be true to yourself. That way happiness lies...

To be honest I've done well out of it...... I'm on a tracker mortgage that is charging me 1.5% interest, I'm managing to over pay my mortgage by more than what the initial monthly payment is. My wife is a teacher and ive got a decent job too. I've not seen much poverty were I live/ work. When ever I go shopping for food/clothing/electrical the shops are always busy.

I believe while there is some poverty, Labour is scaremongering. It would be the same if Labour was in power in my opinion. Black MY2013 SD4 GS Auto, Wood Company Armrest, Freel2 sticker.
Gone MY2010 Freelander 2 Manual TD4.e S, Alaska White.

Poverty seems to mean that you only get two foreign holidays when on the dole, the kids ONLY get a £1000 worth of presents at Xmas and you can only afford takeaways 3 times a week!!
I'm starting to sound like my Grandfather, but I really don't think they know what poverty was...

I don't think there is true poverty in this country. I believe it's just laziness to go out and find a job. Too many people in this country use the benefit system as a way of life instead of a crutch to get them through a hard time, then have the cheek to say they are poor but have enough money for the pub, bingo and a fortnight in Benidorm

I don't have the greatest paying job but it's enough for me to get the nice things in life and pay my way. 21MY Defender 90 S 3.0 D200

Nobody that owns a Freelander has any current knowledge of poverty that's for sure, just as nobody presently "working" as an MP has.

There is grinding poverty in this country and sadly it is not quite as simple as some newspapers would have you believe.

Many of us like the idea that it is somehow self induced, that way we can all feel superior and not have to worry about it, nothing new, just the way it is and always has been.

@sako +1

I was considering buying a 2004ish TD5 Discovery to help with towing duties for Mrs. S whilst I am at work, but was told that this would induce poverty!  1998 Feelander XDI Hardback - Gone
2002 Freelander TD4 GS Hardback - Gone
2004 Freelander TD4 HSE Stationwaggon - Gone
2007 Freelander 2 TD4 XS manual - Gone
2010 Freelander 2 TD4 GS Auto - Gone
2013 SD4 GS arrived April 2013

There may be some living in poverty, however the state via social service payouts should alleviate absolute poverty and therefore there is enough to feed, clothe and heat the home to a reasonable level for the recipients. The problem comes with what else should it cover if at all, plus other factors that cause poverty like addictions. One has to question whether the social payments should include alcohol,drugs and in some cases TV and vehicles, as the poverty comes from not using the payments for the real necessities not the perceived necessities. my PC is slightly to the right of Genghis
2012 HSE SD4 In Orkney Grey now gone, best car ever.

I'm aware that there are cases of genuine unforeseen hardship that, as a civilised society, we should aim to alleviate. I feel that there are many people who see benefits very strongly as an entitlement, whatever the situation. Often you see people arguing for benefits but doing little, if anything else, to improve their own situation.

I do despair when people make life choices that any of us would struggle to afford then sit back asking for the state to bail them out in perpetuity.

It's almost like we need to go back to the victorian idea of 'deserving' and 'undeserving' poor.

And I do question the measuring of 'poverty'... Being unable to afford your Sky subscription , nights out or 6 kids isn't a definition of being in poverty. ...

Be true to yourself. That way happiness lies...

The UK government, the European Union and many other countries use 60 per cent of median household income as the poverty ‘threshold’. Median income is the middle point in the income range, with equal numbers of households on incomes above and below that point. The 60 per cent level is chosen as an indicator of the income at which those below are likely to be suffering hardship. As such, it is a proxy measure of poverty and, without validation from direct measures of people’s living standards, is essentially arbitrary. The threshold’s importance is that it does show how the poorest members of society are doing in relation to others, it can be tracked over time, and allows comparisons between different countries. (lifted from here http://www.poverty.ac.uk/definitions-pover...d-approach )

The following was lifted from the BBC web

The average income for a British family with two adults working is £40,000 a year. But while there are people who feel well-off living on this, for others it is a daily struggle.

So the "sound bites" of Ed are perhaps saying that anybody below £24,000 household income are in poverty hmmmm MY 09 GS manual in Lago Grey, Wood Co arm rest and side bumper strips - now sold.

MY 15 SD4 SE Auto Orkney Grey with colour coded Bumper Door Mouldings

hmmmmmmm. yep. ...

Be true to yourself. That way happiness lies...

Bring back the workhouse for those who will not get off their backsides to work.

@sako +2

Some people need to look up the meanings of poverty and subsistence level.

The coalition have not denied these are the facts, along with the fact that those in work are on average £1600pa worse off compared to 2010.

Being on benefits should not be a lifestyle and neither should it pay more than working but it is still a fact that more than half the households on benefits have at least one person in full employment. The poor did not cause the recession but have come off worse. Those close to or on minimum wage are now paying a much higher percentage of their take home pay for the basics rent, food, fuel and cloth i.e. pushed the into poverty.