I occasionally contribute to a forum called consumer action group which I find helps me apply what I have learned at Uni to real queries from other members and keeps knowledge fresh in the mind from various years of study. I have contributed to topics including consumer law, criminal law and tort law.

To cut a long story short, I contributed to a post which digressed somewhat and I pointed out to the original poster that a theft from shop aka shoplifting, can be complete without actually leaving the store. Along came a manager of a supermarket who boldly said I was entirely wrong. Now, we are taught to support what we say with authority.

I informed that I had learned all about this during my degree and wanted to put this across to the original poster to inform them of how the law worked in this area and re-affirmed my point with case law. No problems at all for the original poster but Mr Manager was right and was now backed up by 2 other interlopers.

I went on to further support my argument in a calm and methodical manner with a House of Lords case and quotes from the Law Lords but they had nothing to back up what they were saying. They then said I clearly had no grasp of the 'real world'. I shot that down too by informing them of my real world knowledge in the legal system as part of my employment and that I had seen convictions without the offender leaving with the goods. I also pointed out that case law ISN'T BLOODY FICTIONAL!

They eventually shut up and went away. My purpose was to help the original poster but these fools just wouldn't accept my supported knowledge. GGGRRR

So (all pi s taking aside), for you guys on here who have skills in a particular field, have you ever given advice to someone using your field of expertise (in your employment perhaps) and been met by counter arguments that don't make sense etc?

P.S, my grades and classification should be out by the end of the week. I will be so on edge that I will be shaking like a shi ting dog when I access my online account to read what I got  LL.B (Hons) - University of Derby
LOT (Lord of Time) - University of Gallifrey

Shops like to wait until they leave the store to make 100% sure they are not going to pay,
so they think thats the law,
as you say the intention to deprive an be proven within the premises, but the courst like a clear cut no get out case, before they let them off with a slap on the wrists.

Your talking what do you know about the law








 Former Mod/Member, with the most post & Chicken George Arch nemesis

Here's one then for you Doc.
I have just written a letter to a customer, well 7 days ago actually, giving him 7 days to pay his bill for service work, or we will seek other means to recover the debt, he owes £390, outstanding for 6 months now.
We have in our warehouse, goods which he has payed for, 3 items, all are more than the debt individually, can we seize one of these items to clear his debt and leave the others on his doorstep?
He has cost us money in the past with strange dealings etc and we want our money back then he can find someone else to look after him.

He has also been in trouble with his professional body and we are concerned he may be stopped from practicing, in which case, we would have to write off the debt?

I feel this is in the right place as I am banging my head against a brick wall with this guy.

don't give him any of the goods till he clears the debt, and to speed things up issue a claim in the small claims court Former Mod/Member, with the most post & Chicken George Arch nemesis

I won't pretend to have expertise in your problem Taz but given the circumstances, action is needed and advice from appropriate persons. Unhappy outcomes like that have occurred at my dads shop LL.B (Hons) - University of Derby
LOT (Lord of Time) - University of Gallifrey

I will add onto that just out of interest, that there was a case (name escapes me) where a bloke was convicted of effectively stealing his own car. He took the car without paying for the work a garage had carried out on it. The garage were the victim of the theft of the car because until payment was made, they were temporary owners of it and it was in their custody. Interesting stuff. LL.B (Hons) - University of Derby
LOT (Lord of Time) - University of Gallifrey

Oh yes all the time.

I've worked in the electronics field for many a year and am now in telecoms management and dealing with manufacturers/suppliers at arms length - it's astounding how many people I have dealt with haven't the level of expertise they claim they have.

I've dealt with sales staff that don't know what there product does, management that isn't aware of what's going on outside their little field, production staff that don't know how to produce defect free product let alone doing it efficiently, quality staff that wouldn't recognize a product quality issue until presented with their OWN facts and figures, and design staff who make fundamental errors in either design or design for manufacture (meaning designing it to be easy to make). And this is globally, not just in the UK.....In the Far East though there is a great propensity for people to listen (when you are paying for services), take advice and do what you want/ask. But woe betide you if you tell them something wrong - it gets made wrong

I don't profess to be any great expert, but my experience has shown that there are plenty of people out there who don't want to take advice. It's just life though and you pick your battles to fight.

One example I remember always was a piece of advice I offered when I suggested to a design engineer colleague that unless he redesigned the circuit board to my enhanced design there would be a complete product failure a year or so down the line (and we were talking high end and often safety critical products here). He spent hours outlining to management why my proposal wasn't needed instead of the 30 minutes to uprate the product. Being quite new to the company at the time I eventually backed off. End of the story? Every single product made over a 4 year period was subject to a service recall and swap out and the redesign I originally proposed was implemented......

I also have two teenage kids and a wife and THEY are ALWAYS right and I have learned that advice, right or wrong, is not always required.....

For Taz

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1979/5...llers-lien

The Doctor wrote:

So (all pi s taking aside), for you guys on here who have skills in a particular field, have you ever given advice to someone using your field of expertise (in your employment perhaps) and been met by counter arguments that don't make sense etc?

A few years back, my elderly father had a lady friend who always bought brand new Volkswagen Polos and replaced them every three years. She only did about 4,000 miles a year but when she went to trade in, she was taken advantage of and given fairly low trade-in prices and no discount off the new car. She gradually realised what was going on, but being old fashioned and too polite, she would not haggle with the dealer, or even go to another dealer.

At one point at which she was about to change her car, I suggested she should keep her car for longer due to the low mileage and as long as it was serviced in accordance with the manufacturers schedule she should be OK. Sure enough, she decided not change after three years (despite desparate phone calls from the dealer!) and kept the latest car for five trouble free years.

So, after five years, she was in possession of an immaculate VW Polo with only 20k on the clock. Pleased with my advice she decided to change her car for another new Polo and resolved to keep this one for five years too.

I saw her shortly afterwards and she was not at all pleased. When I asked why, she said they would not give her as good a trade in as she had had in the past! She honestly thought she would get the same trade in figure for a five year old car as a three year old one! Of course, all of this was my fault!

Lesson learned: Don't give advice to idiots!  2013 RR Evoque Pure Tech
2012 TD4 GS Auto Orkney Grey - gone

lespes wrote:

For Taz

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1979/5...llers-lien

In my field of expertise (Electrical Manufacturing) we are not allowed to give advice, and neither are our Wholesalers to Contractors. Perversely, however, Contractors are allowed to give advice to end users/domestic customers, and their word is "gospel", apparently.

Scenario. "reputable" Contractor approaches Wholesaler for a Domestic Consumer Unit. 12 Ways, each individual circuit RCBO protected....the "Rolls-Royce" way of providing (at exorbitant cost) TRUE 17th Edition compliance. (Any sparks on here will know what I mean by this).

However.....he also wants the board Dual-Split loaded with 63a RCD's (the cheaper way, as you can then just use normal MCB's). We ask the wholesaler what the fore'n'aft he's trying to do, as he will have nuisance tripping all over the board with this configuration...it's either RCBO's all the way down the busbar, or Dual RCD's with each circuit protected by MCB's, but NEVER both..it just ain't gonna work!

"But Im ECA qualified" in broken English I hear when I call him. "And that is what they tell me MUST be done"....err...ok...sure they did matey.

We declined to supply. Some people know 100% about ferk all, and those (certainly in this field) are best avoided like the plague....

What doesn't surprise me is the stupid attitude taken of cost over credibility....recession or not, there are some things you just don't mess about with, irrespective of cost....electricity being one of them! Buy cheap, buy twice...(if you survive the resulting fire in the first place!) Foraging near Gaydon....
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MY13 HSE Lux SD4, Baltic Blue - current, 30,000> miles without fault
MY12 HSE 2.2 SD4, Sumatra Black - gone after 10 months/43,000 fault-free miles

taztastic wrote:

lespes wrote:

For Taz

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1979/5...llers-lien

Thank you lespes, although not sure it helps, he has paid for the goods we have in our warehouse, what he hasn't paid for is the call out charges for other equipment we have repaired in the interim.

I have spent the last 30 years giving largely ignored and disbelieved advice to at least 50% of my patients who just don't want to be told the truth, and since we now have to offer smoking cessation and obesity danger advice I expect the figure to rise