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oldgeezer

Member Since: 09 Apr 2011
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 1302

2013 Freelander 2 TD4 GS Manual Baltic Blue

13 pin elecs and question for caravan owners

Hi Guys
When I connect my van to the car the caravan shuts down, no internal electrics and no charge to battery.
Pin 9 is live without engine running which is correct and pin 10 is live when running which is correct and pins 11 and 13 which are earths for 9 and 10 are also working !
I have spoken to caran dealer who says caravan no longer allow charging during towing to reduce risk of cooking battery and fire risk !
How does that work when my old FR2 with 13 pins charged battery fine ?
Has anyone else come across this with new car ?
Seems daft that if I use the motor mover for 20 mins turning the van 180 defrees on site and then tow to another site the battery may be exhausted ?
Wierd or what

5th Aug 2013 10:38 am

ad210358

Member Since: 12 Oct 2008
Location: Here and There
Posts: 7464

I did think it was the Habitation Relay that was killing the internal lights but haven't heard about the non charging of the battery. p****d off with a Digital Keyboard Warrior

5th Aug 2013 11:36 am

Mona Geeza

Member Since: 22 May 2010
Location: Devon
Posts: 1293

2010 Freelander 2 TD4_e XS Manual Stornoway Grey

Sounds like a new law to put off caravanners from towing their caravan to me,

5th Aug 2013 12:19 pm

Bill Turner

Member Since: 08 Jul 2008
Location: Birkenhead
Posts: 977

2009 Freelander 2 TD4 SE Auto Santorini Black

Re: 13 pin elecs and question for caravan owners

oldgeezer wrote:
Hi Guys
When I connect my van to the car the caravan shuts down, no internal electrics and no charge to battery.
Pin 9 is live without engine running which is correct and pin 10 is live when running which is correct and pins 11 and 13 which are earths for 9 and 10 are also working !
I have spoken to caravan dealer who says caravan no longer allow charging during towing to reduce risk of cooking battery and fire risk !
How does that work when my old FR2 with 13 pins charged battery fine ?
Has anyone else come across this with new car ?
Seems daft that if I use the motor mover for 20 mins turning the van 180 degrees on site and then tow to another site the battery may be exhausted ?
Wierd or what

Oldgezzer,
I did not think that your caravan dealer could possibly be right so sent an email to Swift(who make most of the caravans sold in the UK) asking the question and below is their reply which confirms my thoughts that your dealer is talking through his fundamental orifice.(this could be to try to save him having to examine your van and sort it)

Our Ref. KA/ 158378

09/08/2013

Dear Mr Turner

The Swift Group

Thank you for your email.

I would like to confirm that all our new caravans will trickle charge the leisure battery and the fridge during towing through the 13pin socket. If the tow bar is not connected to the correct pins this will not happen.

Yours sincerely

Kerry Allan
Support Co-ordinator - Tourer & Motorhome Division

http://caravanchronicles.com/guides/unders...g-circuit/

This link may also help but it appears from this blog that although that car should charge the van battery and run the fridge that the "habitation relay" cuts off the supply to the interior lights etc. so your dealer is partially correct, but you still have a fault if the fridge does not work and the van battery is not charging.
As ad210358 thinks and I agree the habitation relay should be the starting point of you investigations.

Bill T. Life Honorary Member of Wallasey Motor Club.
Licenced MSA Radio Operator for 35+ years.
Rallying is the only sport.

9th Aug 2013 11:58 am

Jonathan26

Member Since: 11 May 2013
Location: Manchester
Posts: 71

2007 Freelander 2 TD4 GS Manual Caspian Blue

What people are saying is incorrect and your dealer isn't. When the engine starts and the relay in the tow vehicle electrics sends power down pin 10, the habitation relay in the caravan sends this power to the fridge and also redirects the power that was going to the internal 12 V from the permanent live to the leisure battery.
The caravan habitation relay could have failed ( it's very rare though) but the first place I would check s the caravan leisure battery fuse. Do you get power to lights etc in the van when the tow vehicle is disconnected ??
Jonathan.
NCC Approved Workshop engineer and owner. FL2 2007 57 GS
D2 2005 Td5 - gone and not missed
FL1 2005 Td4 - gone and missed

9th Aug 2013 1:19 pm

Bill Turner

Member Since: 08 Jul 2008
Location: Birkenhead
Posts: 977

Jonathan26 wrote:
What people are saying is incorrect and your dealer isn't. When the engine starts and the relay in the tow vehicle electrics sends power down pin 10, the habitation relay in the caravan sends this power to the fridge and also redirects the power that was going to the internal 12 V from the permanent live to the leisure battery.
The caravan habitation relay could have failed ( it's very rare though) but the first place I would check s the caravan leisure battery fuse. Do you get power to lights etc in the van when the tow vehicle is disconnected ??
Jonathan.
NCC Approved Workshop engineer and owner.

That is what I said and is confirmed by the "Caravan Chronicles blog.

According to Oldgezzer his dealer said [b] "caravan no longer allow charging during towing to reduce risk of cooking battery and fire risk !" which we all now know is incorrect.
After thinking about it, I would also agree that a check of the leisure battery fuse should be the first move followed by the habitation relay which Johnathon26 could give us all a clue on its likely location and I just hope it is not built into the van control panel.

Bill T. Life Honorary Member of Wallasey Motor Club.
Licenced MSA Radio Operator for 35+ years.
Rallying is the only sport.

9th Aug 2013 3:48 pm

Bill Turner

Member Since: 08 Jul 2008
Location: Birkenhead
Posts: 977

Reply to my query to The Caravan Club in connection with this subject confirming that your dealer is incorrect.

Dear Bill Turner,
You can still use your car whilst driving to charge your caravans leisure battery,so carry on as you were and there is no risk to you or your battery unless there was a fault that developed resulting in your leisure battery getting hot or giving off fumes , so we always recommend checking periodically to see everything is ok.

Regards,

Yours sincerely, The Caravan Club
The Caravan Club

Bill T Life Honorary Member of Wallasey Motor Club.
Licenced MSA Radio Operator for 35+ years.
Rallying is the only sport.

9th Aug 2013 3:54 pm

Jonathan26

Member Since: 11 May 2013
Location: Manchester
Posts: 71

Habitation relay - Depending on the age of the caravan, it might well be in the caravan control panel. If not, they are often fitted on the front bulkhead, inside the caravan. Fuses ( not only the caravan battery fuse) are the most likely cause though. It will either be behind the battery box or on the control panel front panel. FL2 2007 57 GS
D2 2005 Td5 - gone and not missed
FL1 2005 Td4 - gone and missed

9th Aug 2013 4:48 pm

Mona Geeza

Member Since: 22 May 2010
Location: Devon
Posts: 1293

Looks like the EU want to bring out an annual MOT test for caravans so if everything isnt up to scratch some wont be going anywhere, charged up or not.

9th Aug 2013 5:50 pm

oldgeezer

Member Since: 09 Apr 2011
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 1302

Thank you Bill the plot thickens

If a caravan with Euro plug, isn't fitted with ATC then pin 9 MUST NOT have a live feed ! if it does it shuts the caravan electrics down !

The technical advisor I spoke to suggested that pin 9 supply ( constant 12v feed ) needs disconnecting & then everything should work !

So the way I see it we should have a fuse box in the boot with a row of fuses so you would have a choice to remove constant feed if you have a van without ATC. I decided against ATC as i have never needed it in 25 years and with TA vans they tend to be very stable & it saved me about £1300.00.

I have spoken with my dealer & they will investigate & see if an in-line fuse could be fitted for pin 9 so if I change my van & its fitted with ATC it would then work.

I will try removing the wire form pin 9 in the caravan plug to see if it does fix the issue & then go from there but anyone else come across this ?[/b]

9th Aug 2013 6:05 pm

Bill Turner

Member Since: 08 Jul 2008
Location: Birkenhead
Posts: 977

just to add another complication if you scroll right down to the bottom of the Caravan Chronicles blog there is a copy of and article from Land Rover Owner International magazine about the charging system on Discovery 4's which as I understand it reduces the voltage output of the alternator under certain circumstances to reduce fuel consumption which has caused problems with second batteries fitted to power winches but equally could affect caravan batteries.
Just wonder if this charging system is fitted on FL2's?

Bill T. Life Honorary Member of Wallasey Motor Club.
Licenced MSA Radio Operator for 35+ years.
Rallying is the only sport.

10th Aug 2013 9:08 am

martinbcfc

Member Since: 30 Jul 2013
Location: Solihull
Posts: 59

2011 Freelander 2 SD4 XS Auto Indus Silver

Sorry if I am a bit thick on this (new to Freelander and caravanning, but what is ATC?

10th Aug 2013 9:50 am

chicken george

Member Since: 05 Dec 2007
Location: N. Yorks
Posts: 13292

2008 Freelander 2 TD4 XS Manual Santorini Black

Im fortunate in that I do not have a caravan Habitation Relay At work
At home

"I can't always believe facts I read on the web" - Charles Dickens

winner by default of the tractor vs caravan race

10th Aug 2013 10:43 am

ad210358

Member Since: 12 Oct 2008
Location: Here and There
Posts: 7464

But you make up for it with that almighty chip on the shoulder p****d off with a Digital Keyboard Warrior

10th Aug 2013 11:15 am

EYorkshire

Member Since: 18 Nov 2010
Location: (!)
Posts: 4392

martinbcfc wrote:
Sorry if I am a bit thick on this (new to Freelander and caravanning, but what is ATC?

Automatic Trailer Control, where a system detects instability and controls the caravan braking to 'flatten' it out again.

10th Aug 2013 11:30 am

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