There have been a couple of comments recently about Land Rover vehicles going away from their initial design principle and to a large part I agree but they are adapting to a changing market and change they must in order to survive.

I also came across the following video which is interesting, especially the comment around 1:00, "not driven by vanity or fashion" hmm who are they trying to kid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KbtPzKo02Q...detailpage

great video and brilliant welsh accent.

Landrover are moving with the times ( which includes fashion and to a certain extent vanity ) and that's why they are so successful.

for instance the Skoda Yeti has yet again been voted the best all round 4X4 this year, but would you be seen driving one ?

I would, but my wife would not.

Iain

I think irrespective of the tinsel on modern day Land Rovers, people buy into the LR Brand because they know that they make the best 4x4's in the world. Sure some other manufacturers come close....but no-one else knows quite just how to do it like LR do.

Interestingly, cast your mind back to the late 90's when the FL1 had all its appalling Rover-related reliability issues.....how many of us then would have said in 15 years time we would be driving a Freelander? My guess would be not many of us.....  Foraging near Gaydon....
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MY13 HSE Lux SD4, Baltic Blue - current, 30,000> miles without fault
MY12 HSE 2.2 SD4, Sumatra Black - gone after 10 months/43,000 fault-free miles

The problem is that L/R are doing very well, this means that they can sell the cars so quick that they have forgotten about the customer service side. A couple of dealers that I phoned about part ex-ing up to a 13 plate model didnt even bother getting back to me. My local dealer offered me the same as WBAC and didn't want to knock anything of the new one!! I told them the deal was no good and they didn't even come back with anything else.
I love the Freelander and was going to move onto the MY13 model or a Range Rover but to be honest, I will keep the one I have and seriously look at what else is about away from the L/R brand (they are not THAT good!).
We spend a lot of money changing cars, and I expect the dealers to appreciate it and for L/R to give us brilliant customer service, I had also hoped that the warranty might have been lifted to at least 4 years.

I fully understand how you feel about Dealers!
I know it's been said before but try James@HadleyGreen. I've not dealt with him but he seems to regularly get good comments on here and the other sites.

As the one who made some of the original comments Taz refers to I guess I should put in my ha'p'orth!

I certainly accept (and said so in my original comments) that LR must embrace the new market opportunities. But what's less obvious is that, in the process, they must abandon their traditional buyers - something which they unfortunately are doing.

Take, for example, a typical hill farmer from hereabouts. He's not going to spend £50K on a Discovery just to mess it up carting around a couple of muddy sheepdogs, the odd dead sheep, etc. Same applies to the Freelander, plus it's a bit limited in terms of load space. Which leaves him with the Defender - a 50-odd year old design which is just too crude for road use and which looks expensive for what it is. As a result most of the farmers around here drive Japanese pick-ups. That's a pity - a British farmer should have a Land Rover!

Then there's all the 'tinsel' as Badger calls it. Tinsel is all well and good, but it puts up the price of the car and affects reliability, and most country buyers would rather do without electric this and that in return for better reliability and a bit of cash in hand.

Even the 4wd systems are being driven by politics and fashion. Dynamically there is no need for Haldex units, Terrain Response, etc - a simple limited slip (or lockable) diff is perfectly adequate. Except for the fashion-conscious buyers who want all that stuff, yet will never use it.

LR could, if they wanted to, cater to both markets. As has been said before, use the RR brand for the fashion-conscious townies, and the LR brand for those who actually want a Land Rover. These more functional models wouldn't be wasted, as they're just what's needed in less advanced markets such as Asia and Africa - markets where LR have been losing out to the likes of Toyota for many years now.

The way they're going LR will be just another urban SUV maker before long, and that would be a pity for many reasons.

LR do listen to their customers, the DC100 defender replacement has been scrapped because the die hards don't like it, so it's back to the drawing boards. I'm patiently waiting on the new defender as I could do with the 90 hard top for my dogs, at the moment though it's unusable for me as an every day car.

The new Range Rover may have over the top luxuries, but it retains the same core value that LR has had for the past 65 years, to be the best 4x4xfar.

Land Rover 21MY Defender 90 S 3.0 D200

As Iain said: Skoda Yeti has yet again been voted the best all round 4X4 this year, but would you be seen driving one ?

If only there were a diesel automatic version I'd have bought one rather than the Freelander. I think they're brill in both looks and function.

Skoda's comically bad reputation is most unfair, being entirely the fault of the ill-starred communist experiment in eastern Europe. Before WW2 and post-VW takeover they were and are excellent manufacturers. You'd have needed much cash to buy into anything Skoda in the 1930s! Ours - 2008 Stornoway Grey HSE Auto
Tricia's - 2006 Royal Blue Beetle Cabriolet Auto
Mine - 2014 Vespa GTS 300 Super Sport Matt Black
Ours - 2007 White Bailey Pageant Champagne

So, how's this for an idea to address LR's traditional markets (be that UK farmers or third world explorers).

Take the D4, and strip out the complex/expensive/unreliable air suspension and replace it with a 'normal' set-up. Do something similar with the 4wd system, stripping out all the complex/expensive/unreliable electronics and related hardware and replace it with a more traditional 4wd system based on limited slip (or locking) diffs. For the markets envisaged one could go with manual transmission (with low range, naturally), thus removing the need for the electronics in the first place. And maybe look at giving it a variant of the TD4 engine too, to keep fuel consumption and servicing costs reasonable.

Now fit it out with a nice but hard-wearing interior and sell it for less than £30K.

Conceptually it would fulfil the role of the original discovery, before it went up market, and would, I believe, sell like the proverbial hot cakes. And there, in all probability, is the problem for LR. If such a vehicle was available who would spend 40-50K on the D4? Or 30K on a Freelander? I, for one, wouldn't!

pab..
this is partly why i went for the LWB Mitsubishi Shogun!
Don't get me wrong, i'm a big LR fan and i'd be happy with a Defender 110 but just a bit to agricultural to use day to day. LR are now missing a large capable and reliable no nonsense 4x4 with just enough refinement to use as an everyday driver.
I completely agree that they must adapt to a changing market but theres nothing stopping them building something to compete with the big Jap 4x4's that are still selling well.
Hopefully the new Defender will fill that gap and i'll be back with LR next time!

pab wrote:

Take, for example, a typical hill farmer from hereabouts. He's not going to spend £50K on a Discovery just to mess it up carting around a couple of muddy sheepdogs, the odd dead sheep, etc. Same applies to the Freelander, plus it's a bit limited in terms of load space. Which leaves him with the Defender - a 50-odd year old design which is just too crude for road use and which looks expensive for what it is. As a result most of the farmers around here drive Japanese pick-ups. That's a pity - a British farmer should have a Land Rover!

The new defender is coming, it's vital that LR get it right. They have to make it usable as a workhorse but also liveable as an everyday vehicle. They can leave out air suspension and TR, the interior doesn't need to be flash, it just needs to be comfortable.

LR don't have to abandon the defenders core values, they just need to improve and modernise what they have. Create an all round 4x4 for the 21st century. 21MY Defender 90 S 3.0 D200